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Help mismatch maybe?

Hello folks,

I recently purchased a pair of Quad 21L2's here on Agon. I tried them with some older Adcom electronics, which were uninvolving. Having read alot of good things about Nad products, and since they were in my price range, I purchased a C372 Intergraded amp here on Agon. The sound of the Nad and Quads are very detailed which I like more then less. Although, I would like the sound to be a little fuller & organic in the midrange. As it stands right now, the system sounds as though the treble control is almost maxed and the bass control is half way on the minus side. (I am in tone defeat mode).
My wife who is also my listening buddy, finds the setup too bright for her ears, and she is unable to listen with me now, unless the volume is very low. Our listening tastes in music range from Classical, to Classic Rock to Jazz, to Female/Male vocals, and everything in between.

Our front end consist of a Arcam FMJ CD23. IC's are of the Monster, and Z squared varity. PC's are PS and Z squared types. SC's Monster M2's Speakers are on the long wall in a Near Field configuration far away from the side walls and at least 3 feet from the rear. I have tried various placement scenario's and the NF seems to be the best overall.

Now, Is it possible That the Nad and the Quads are a mismatch?
If so, I would like to keep the Quads. If it's the electronics, I would like to stay with a Intergrated amp.
Are there any simular experiences, or recommendations you could offer?

Any help along these lines would be appreciated.
Thanks.
mickey13
mb9061
137 posts
 
I have a pair of 22L2s in a room that measures 24' long by 12' deep by 7 1/2' ceiling. Speakers are on the long wall, a little more than 2' from side wall (left speaker), about 8 1/2' feet apart and about 1 1/2' from the back wall (measured to rear port). Zero problem with bass. Too much in most cases, but I find moving the speaker forward or back in 1/2 inch increments to either add or subtract LF response significantly. I've paired these speakers with an MF 308I integrated, an Anthem Statement A5 multichannel, a Sunfire multichannel and now another MF Integrated (an A5 this time that is rated 250x2 into 8 ohms). Zero problems with lack of bass response.

That said, unless your ceiling is the culprit (I doubt it), I'd suggest trying different amps and getting the speakers a little closer to the wall by 1/2" increments to see what you can come up with. I doubt the 21L2's are that lacking considerably in bass response compared to the 22L2s (perhaps a bit, but not that much). The more current powerful the amp (not necessarily wattage), the more slam you'll get from the speakers. If you have isolation tweaks, try removing those too as I've found time and time again that they can thin the LF response, particularly with amplifiers. Make sure the speakers are level and not firing at an upward angle, as that may thin sound as well.

Try ICs next, but I wouldn't spend my money on them until I got a better amp in your situation.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,205 posts
 
NAD is not always the smoothest on top end, but lack of bass in this system does surprise me also. I doubt lack of bass is due to teh NAD. I've heard them I believe on NAD electronics in a sizable showroom and did not notice an inherent bass problem. Of course, all rooms are different. The 22L did have a bit more inherent bottom end in comparison in the same showroom however.

Play with location some more as mb9061 suggests maybe.

Amps that double power output into 4 and 2 ohms, like some Musical Fidelities and many Class Ds will inherently do bass better than the NAD though.

Onkyo has a new 80 watt/ch Class D integrated that has gotten great reviews frommany and it can be had for under $500 I believe. That would be a low cost alternative to try perhaps if needed.
mickey13 OP
24 posts
 
Gentelman,
I am out of town as of today due to an illness in the family but have internet capability. Wow, you sure are giving me alot to think about and I appreciate it. I will be home by this weekend. But..guess what? Mb9061 may have hit upon something.. When I purched these speakers, I was advised to tilt the speakers upwards, plus..It was also recommended in a review I had read on the Quads to boot. The review even went on to show a level on top of the speakers indicating the amount of tilt to have. (I have never listened to them level). The point was, to insure the tweeters were at ear level etc. Would'nt it be nuts if that was the problem all along? I can't imagine it could be such a simple fix. But I'm hopeing.. I will keep all of you posted.
Mike
ltleo74
28 posts
 
you have a mis match, sounds like you are out on the imput impedence. . how long are your interconnects? when that happens, it will always effect your bass. as in cut it in half. you get all the highs you want, but you lose base. you need to either change you pre or amp, or shorten you connect. check the stats on your pre amp and amp on the imput imped.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,807 posts
 
Mapman, the short answer is no.

All you have to do is look at the designer's intent, particularly with the speaker designer. What is the amp that he is using in the design process? Is it tubed? If so, its likely that he has engineered the speaker to work properly without the ability for the amp to double power as the impedance is cut in half.

OTOH, look at a B&W 802. There is not a tube amp in the world that will play bass right on that speaker- you need transistors, as the woofers are running at 3 db less efficiency as the midrange and tweeters are. You need an amp that will double power when it encounters the 4 ohm woofer load, while the rest of the speaker is 8 ohms. That makes the woofers play at the same level as the rest of the system.

In the case of all planar speakers, they must be at least 5 feet from the wall for proper response, otherwise you will not realize everything they have to offer. If people are getting good bass out of Quads with a transistor amplifier, nice times out of ten I find that the speaker is fairly close to the wall too. This causes a bass enhancement at certain frequencies, wherein the backwave is able to reinforce the diaphragm, but it results also in a 'one-note bass' sort of like a boom-car.
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