Higher End DACs

@mikelavigne

thanks for the further thoughts on MSB - I am starting to pick up they may be in a separate class.

you actually raise another point - should i be strongly considering running a DAC with incorporated preamp directly into power amp vs using my c1100 as a preamp.

and - Here are some further thoughts i am wrestling with that i posted on another forum as well (essentially whether i should just drive cd playback considerations completely out of my mind and for those that have invested heavily in their digital capabilities have you similarly invested heavily in your analog/vinyl playback):

- The idea of a CD player/transport is still hanging around...I dont have a large cd collection at all (pitiful, tbh)...but for some reason, whether it is the physical medium/ownership/familiarity from my youth) I keep wondering if I should think of getting a 2-box transport/DAC or an integrated player/DAC, rather than just a DAC and streamer.

- Originally, after getting my Mac setup, I was going to get a vinyl setup. Once I started to understand how high the costs could go on a really great vinyl rig, however, I decided to postpone and just go digital with its convenience and lower cost outlay. As I have been delving more into the digital research, I find myself sliding into more expensive areas than I was originally thinking of negating some of the benefit of going the ‘lower’ cost solution vs analog...

I still think the digital pieces I am thinking of are still less than the outlay for the phono (I was thinking like CA Master Innovation/ goldfinger just to give a sense of outlay) but its not as big a price difference as originally if I am thinking about something like Vivaldi or MSB or 2-box transport/DAC...

Any thought on making a BIG investment in the DAC (and potentially player/transport/streamer) setup vs REALLY BIG investment in turntable/arm/cartridge vs REALLY BIG investment in on top of the line digital like MSB?

Obviously, these are very first class issues - however, I am not fortunate enough to be so well of that I can view these outlays as immaterial spends...they represent true investments that require sacrifices for me (albeit sacrifices of other disposable spend, likely lol)...but, at any rate, not really in a position to view the spend as simply ‘sure, why not’.

@ufguy73 and @mikelavigne It will be helpful if you put numbers up for comparisons with / to the other available options. Mike, in your system, the additional spend on cables and isolation, etc. for the Select II. Thanks.

regarding the consideration of digital and vinyl budget balance and degree of over-the-bleeding-edge for either or both, i don’t think i’m a good person to follow. i’m all in and doubled down on both + tape all in too. i’m crazy, so "don’t try this at home". i just added 2 more turntables (not yet posted on my audiogon system page) with all the ancillary gear that comes with that to my long term turntable.

were i starting over and sane, i would likely just go all in on digital, since new music and streaming is where it all is going. i’m a baby boomer, love my vinyl and classic rock, and so i’m hard wired for the analog thing.

as far as support for my digital in my system besides the MSB dac, mono power supplies, and clock; i currently used ’double-Daiza’s’ under each of the three MSB boxes + server ($1200 x 4), 3 Absolute Fidelity power cords ($1800 x 3), the MSB Pro USB interface ($1500) with the Gobel Lachorde USB cable ($5200), the SGM Extreme server with 32tb of PCIe drives ($28k) plus a fiber optic as the last leg of my LAN ($500).

i use a .75 meter set of Evolution Acoustic 50 ohm BNC interconnects ($5k) between the MSB Select II and my darTZeel preamp.

obviously the Extreme is......well......Extreme. and sounds like it. lots of more reasonable choices. otherwise nothing too radical or outlandishly expensive for the bleeding edge of digital performance.

until a few months ago i did use one of my Taiko Tana active devices ($16k) under my dac box; i've re-tasked that under a new phono stage since the 'double-Daiza' does the job so well when all the pieces and server use the same passive method.....a synergy type thing. now all my analog boxes plus my mono block amps use those Tana's......another synergy type thing.

rgmd11... if the t&a unit has an analog preamp whereas the dcs was used directly with its digital volume control that would explain the difference in sq quite well. regardless of what dcs says their dacs sound better with a great preamp. i’ve had a rossini and greatly preferred using it with a good preamp. i wish it wasn’t so. imo

@david_ten @mikelavigne

David, there are several permutations I am thinking of but at least directionally (i.e. for discussion purposes) its sort of as below:

1) Combination Player/DAC (around 25k-35k)

- something along the lines of Esoteric K1 (maybe the newer X model)
or the new N-01x.

obviously, the big decisions here are whether to go in on CDs (though I don’t own that many but like the idea of ’owning’ and the physical media) or whether to bypass the CD and just go directly to high rez streaming.

2) Standalone DAC

- most likely something from the subset of Rossini - 25k, Vivaldi - 35k,
Reference - 40k, Esoteric D1x - 50k....I would have to think long
and hard about a Select - 80k....I also recently found about T+A so I will have to do more digging on them, particularly in comparison to MSB which I am getting really interested in.

I would still have to think about whether I want a CD transport (would be tempted to do something pretty nice if I had the standalone DAC) or a streamer.

Depending on how much I blew on the standalone DAC, I would have to consider doing an interim streamer solution (like a Lumin U1, Aurender A10, etc) and then upgrade with a more premium CD transport (Esoteric P1X, etc) or a nicer streamer.

3) Vinyl (potentially 35-60k, including tonearm, cartridge)

- I am intrigued by the ClearAudio Innovation line - and also thinking
about the Master Innovation, hence the fairly wide price range.

When I originally got my current setup of C1100, MC611, and B&W 800s I was going to do a vinyl analog setup. I still like the idea of that but am starting to wonder if that should be more of a ’niche’ source and not my primary, given the ease and volume of streaming content.

However, Im also not sure if the Mcintosh setup above is oriented and/or high enough resolution to fully realize the upper end models of the DACs, transports, and players I referenced above.

So, as you can see I still have a lot I am working through - including which source to prioritize, how to get something high quality (that hopefully still will have good synergy with the Mc setup) and that still allows for upgrade paths going forward, and what price range(s) to come in to accomplish those goals.

I should also mention the above prices are of course just for the units - I am really not sure how much cables and connects are likely to run me for each of the scenarios!