How could surround sound be used in an audiophile system?

I share the same dissatisfaction with two channel as you do and use a Meridian 568 in trifield mode. Meridian is the answer and you owe yourself a duty to audition a Meridian processor. The Meridian 861 is prohibitively expensive whereas you can pick up a used Meridian 565 for a reasonable price and will perform almost as well for what you require. Until you hear two channel music played through the trifield mode, you will continue to experience that frustration.

I still have and use a JVC XL Z 1010 surround unit. This, I am sure, will horrify most dyed in the wool audiophiles but so what. The sound is much more alive when the effects speakers are running. The question of the quality of the effect speakers is bogus since the level at which they have to play to recreate ambience is so low that any decent speaker driven by a low power, clean amp will do the trick. Trying to get "soundstaging" and a broad, wide and deep image with two speakers is mission impossible. Audiophiles love to hear the illusion of music appearing not to come from the speakers themselves, so they set them up as far as they can from the front and side walls getting what I have always heard (my latest auditioning of a state of the art system consisting of Pass electronics and Dynaudio speakers having yet confirmed this) as an "outside looking in" sort of presentation. The use of dipoles, be they electrostats or dynamic panels or conventional dynamic driver speakers, confirms that openess is due to the later arrival of the wave coming from the back of the speaker. Don't get me wrong, I am not stating that electrostats get their sound solely from usually being dipoles, but I digress. With ambiance synthesis, you walk into a room where the system is playing and, unless you get a cue from looking at the additional speakers, what you hear gives you the distinct impression that you are inside the acoustic space. No it's not all perfect, since recordings normally have some ambiance built in, the whole thing can be overdone by layering on too much ambiance. Likewise, some of the settings are just way too obvious (who actulally needs stadium or cathedral, except, in the latter case, maybe for pipe organ or sacred music). I do not know where new formats will go in terms of additional ambiance channels, but one thing is certain: the purists will cringe and will bring out the purity and naturalness arguments and will trot out every well worn cliché to convince one and all that what is really needed in an amplifier with more "air", or some magic cable or better yet an a.c. cord that transcends the laws of physics... I am sure that if you took the guts out of a JVC unit, installed them in a chassis weighing at least 50 pounds, put in six regulated power supplies, cones instead of feet and a facaplate at least 3/4 of an inch thick, build it in America or Europe, associated it with the name of some ex-NASA scientist or Bell lab genius,and asked $20,000.00 for it, a goodly number of audiophiles would go for it. I am sure you could find a used JVC for little money to at least experiment. Simply hide the whole thing if any true blue audiophile friends show up. It avoids arguments to the effect that you are not hearing pure music, the occasional sneer and allows you to save face. Remember, the whole thing with reproduced music is that it is an illusion to start with. Sometimes it simply is a better illusion, you decide.

Whoah! Can't get soundstaging depth or width with two channels?? You gotta be kidding!? Alright, maybe if your room is a mess, or you are forced to set up your pair very near the front or sidewalls (ala typical HT setup), then synthesizing space requires more drivers.

But believe me, a tight triangle of a well-matched pair of great speakers, when set in the nearfield WELL out from the front wall, and at least reasonably away from the sidewalls
(more a function of furniture, dispersion, blah blah blah) will throw a HUGE soundstage!

To wit: I have a 7.5 foot equilateral trangle set in a 14x24
x8 room. The stage extends EASILY 10 feet BEHIND the speaker plane, and a couple of feet outside each speaker, too (12-15 feet wide). I credit this success to cheap and easy sidewall reflection control (furniture and pillows),
proper toe-in, and extremely well-matched speakers (Parsifal Encores). I have NO problem experiencing large and small concert halls, and have truly palpable, 3D imaging of full-sized soloists several feet behind the speaker plane.

As a somewhat-silly earlier-era experiment I set up a couple of old small cheap speakers in an adjoining small room behind my listening chair, in a "Dynaco" style rear ambience pair, with a 50 ohm pot via solid 20-AWG "invisible to Ellen" wire to my listening chair. Whereas I NEVER introduce any rear ambience in classical or most jazz recordings, I sometimes crank up a bit of rear level; I never hear it, per se, but sense a shortening of stage depth (darn!), but a sensation of moving closer to the front of the hall. This non-delayed ambience inducement is useful only for a fuller sense of immersion with rock or electric jazz recordings, especially if audience applause was mixed in too far forward. Whereas it can be a bit novel to dial in these rear speakers, I find that best staging depth is obtained with only the front pair on! I have several friends with high end 5.1 systems, and they're shocked at what can be done with 2 channel in a carefully designed setup. This room is also our formal parlor, and therefore has to be VERY acceptable to Ellen...and sports my Steinway B behind the speakers, too. (It's wonderful to see Tony Bennett standing BEHIND the piano belly while Bill Evans lyricizes with him on that great XRCD remaster!)

Sorry to belabor this, but I also consider the prospect of having to stare at a CENTER speaker where Sonny Rollins or Stan Getz like to prowl around is heretical...and a travesty. And what am I gonna do, sit it on top of the Steinway, where Diana and Kendra, or Jessica sit? Gimme a break!
Two channel is NOT anachronistic, nor necessarily limiting.
Good night, all. Ern

A bit of a stretch on my part, saying that you can't get soundstaging etc. with just two speakers. Should have said that with a lot of dry recordings, early CDs, inauspicious room conditions, mono recordings and the like, the JVC XL Z 1010 can provide a significant improvement in the listening experience. As I indicated, the option is always there to take it out of the system and use it as and when required only. I still feel that additional speakers for ambiance is a good thing. How the whole thing can be implemented is another issue altogether. I agree on one point however: with two channel stereo there simply is less to screw up. Again, though, if we step back every time we are faced with more complex solutions, we would all still be listening in mono with horns and the like. I can see the question better now that I have taken a look at the home theatre front, centre channel and all. Moreover, in looking at SACD players and, more specifically, at the Philips 1000, and reading the literature available on line, I realise that all is not as simple as I first thought. Philips indicates the use of six identical speakers: I now understand the misgivings of a lot of people in the audio press. Six speakers would almost invariably mean six mediocre ones. Also, what the hell are they going to put on the additional tracks that requires more than small ambiance speakers driven with low power amps? Does give one pause, no? I do see the (and I use the term loosely) corrupting influence of home theatre on audio only systems. The problems with inventory in numerous formats is well documented and was the main factor having brought down quad so many years ago. I understand that the technology is apparently there in these two layer discs to insure a level of compatibility. At this point, I think what I am favouring is actually ambience synthesis, obviously in the digital domain, which listeners can use as and when they want, over some overbearing, ham fisted, un-defeatable system that is imbedded in the recording itself. Unfortunately, the window of opportunity seems to have closed on such systems, firstly by the advent of 5.1 HT and, secondly, coming, despite the nay sayers, to stores near you, by the multi-channel SACD format. It's too bad that the technology, pioneered by Audio Pulse many years ago and vastly improved by JVC, Lexicon and, I guess, Yamaha, will never be developed into a fully mature and generally accepted system. So, Subaruguru, you have a valid point, good two channel systems do image, but there is room for improvement by adding more channels. How many more, where in the room to install the extra speakers and what to put through these are the obvious questions. I do hope it's not going to be dopey effects, but something more subtle which, in fact, would create the apparent sound field of actual famous venues. Yes, good two channel does beat annoying poorly conceived and set-up multi-channel systems, but the times are a changin'... lets hope for the better.

To redwoodgarden, here's what I do. get a cheap DD surround processor (Onkyo, Sony or other Japanese). run your 5 channels from the processor to your amps. Now if you have a passive box, run your front speakers into the amp and connect with monster cable dual female connectors. Voila, turn on the processor for movie sound and shut off processor and use passive box or other output switcher for two channel.