Tom6897, yes if you sit above the tweeters then the sound stage would be below you. The toe in is only for left right stereo effect. As I found out, if you lift up your mid/tweeter then the sound stage would appear to be higher. I guess it all depends on what you prefer to have, the singer right in front of you or slightly above you as in the concert. This is why I would love to check out somebody else set up and see what it music sounds like in different set up with different equipment and different preference. |
Fiddler, I am sorry that it was unclear. My reply was related to Min888 comment about where the sound emanates from. My tweeters are at 37" high . My listening position is 11 feet away. The center image appears to be Dead Center between the speakers and even to 2 feet above the top of the speaker plane. Sorry for the confusion. My ear height from the listening positions is between 35" and 38" depending on if I sit upright or recline. |
Yes.
The soundstage location comes from the center of the speaker arrangement. No mater what the toe in or out or the angle , back or forward. The soundstage will seem to be comming from the center of the mid driver and the tweeter. The woofer will be a omni-directional sound.
This has been my experience. Not everybody will agree of course. |
Tom6897,
If you sit 18-24" above the speaker, wouldn't the soundstage appear to be below you? :) |
Thanks Zman, sounds like you have the VR4 before. At what position of the pot you end up setting your ambiance level? |
The VR4's are very picky about getting there position right, but when you nail it, you'll know it.
The rear tweeter once set up properly will really enhance the sounstage and imaging.
It's going to take a while of tweeking a little every day to get them just right, but it'll be worth it in the long run.
When you find the sweet spot for those speakers, they will absolutly disapear.
Have fun. |
Thanks guys, I will try to lower it a bit and see how it goes. I have the VR4 HSE so the sound stage width and depth is huge, no problem there. Also the VR4 has the ambiance tweeter in the back how do you adjust it? If you turn it all the way down the mid is very forward kind of like Proac or slightly more so. If you turn it up and it gets less forward and the sound stage gets deeper. |
Not all speakers need to be toed in so much. As long as you keep a solid center, toe them out to get more sound stage width. If you hear your center losing focus you went to far. Most speakers sound there best a little of axis. |
I like 18-24" above the speaker. Not front row, more like 5th or 6th row. It gives the music a chance to bloom. |
Thanks for all of the response. I tried to raise the speakers a little higher and the result is that the singer seems to be singing from the stage, you know like from the concert and you are in the first row. Maybe I will try to sit way back in the room and see what happens. But isn't sitting way back would put you out of the optimum distance for stereo? When you place your speakers do you aim to have the singer right in front of you or sounds slightly above you? |
Make sure that the lasers are off when you are adjusting them while seated in the listening position.
I also think that as far as floor standers go they average about 3 to 5 feet. It is absolutely true the further you are from the speaker the vertical dispersion becomes less critical but using an 8 foot cardas triangle your head should be at the apex of the equilateral triangle so toe in is important. Remember it is your system and your preference so just adjust to your taste starting with those principles. Many speakers including my own have excellent lateral dispersion and don't require a lot of toe in. You will see, or hear, as the case may be. |
You can also read John Atkinson's measurements in Stereophile, provided the speaker you're interested in has been reviewed there. He measures and discusses the vertical dispersion of speakers and usually gives you hints on optimum listening height (unless it's not critical).
You could also listen to the speakers while squatting (sorry!) and standing to try to focus in on the height that sounds best.
-Bob |
I agree with Zman but... make sure you level the speakers and make sure they do not rock side to side or back and forth. You can also try toeing them in some. Ex. 15'' from the back wall outside corner 16'' and inside corner 14''(middle of speaker 15'') then take 1 or 2 laser pointers (stand behind the speakers and aim them (from the outside corners) toward the wall behind where you sit) and have the lines crisscross about 1 foot behind your head. You may need to try several attempts or adjustments, but maybe it'll work for you. Lots of luck. |
Your nose is on the same plane/level as your ears ... use your nose as a guide ... it's easier to see than your ears
DISCLOSER .. I am not telling you where to put your nose only to use it as a guide or reference point relative to tweeter |
IME, it is more important that the speaker(tweeter) be aimed to your ear than at ear level. |
The height of the speaker has a lot to do with how close your listening position is.
If you listen at near feild like I do, then it's much more critical on the hieght.
I prefer my ear to be between the mid driver and the tweeter. Some like the tweeter to be ear level.
If you listen at 8-12 ft. away the hieght is not as crucial.
You can also leanthe speaker forward or back to aim a certain driver or tweeter more to your ear hieght to help in what you think sounds the best.
I like my tweeters to be a little off axis instead of ear hieght. But then, some speakers call for critical hieght on the tweeter.
Try different hieghts and judge for yourself what you think sound the best.
Hope this helps.
John |
