I admire Miles Davis, i admire Stravinsky; but i loved Chet Baker and Scriabin...You?

As Mahgister points out, “for sure it is different for all of us”. Important to give enough relevance to the simple fact that the distinctions made often say much more about ourselves as music lovers (and possibly in other ways as well) and less about the artists in any absolute sense. Moreover, when making this type of comparison, for me it works best to keep matters in at least some historical context. Music is always a reflection of the time of its creation. So, for me, a better context for making these distinctions is to look at artists/composers from the same (or close) periods in time; particularly as concerns composers, but also performers and whether they, to some degree, honor that consideration.

I wish I could say that I admire Chet Baker. I like some of his work very much; especially early Chet. “...And Strings” is a minor gem, but the orchestrators, especially the great Johnny Mandel deserve a good bit of the credit. However, I have heard little in his trumpet playing that “I love”. There is a very appealing accessibility in his playing that makes it easy to take in, but I need to be challenged a bit more in order to “love” a musician or composer. While I save the word “hate” for bigger things, for me, his singing comes dangerously close. The over riding feeling that I am left with is one of indulgence in melancholy. For me, that feeling of indulgence has always been there in his singing, but also crept into his trumpet playing later in his career when he lost his teeth and was having severe “chops” problems. He then leaned more heavily on the melancholy. Not really that important, and subject to one’s personal definition of “virtuosity”, but a trumpet virtuoso he was not.

On the other hand, I LOVE Miles Davis and I admire him to no end. On emotional grounds, he touches all the right buttons for me. His ballad playing was superb. I cannot think of a more evocative sound than that of a single note from his horn with Harmon mute. The construction of his improvisations, no matter the tempo, was likewise superb; in great part for his inspired use of space, the silences between the actual notes played. There is a saying among Jazz players that says that “you can’t play (improvise) outside the harmony before you know how to play inside the harmony”; otherwise it’s just bs. This is the bane of many of the so called “free Jazz” players. Miles was a master of both approaches. The same idea can be applied to the criteria for a claim to “virtuosity”. Miles was such a virtuoso that when he sounded rough and undisciplined, sloppy even, it was by design and for emotional effect, not because of lack of technical control and finesse; he had those in spades. I also admire him to no end for his unrelenting need to grow and evolve as an artist; the reason he was one of the great innovators in the music.

Just a few more that come to mind before my morning coffee:

I like and admire Giovanni Palestrina, but I absolutely love Carlo Gesualdo and his unbelievably ahead of his time use of harmony and chromaticism. Difficult to “admire” someone with a personal story as twisted as his music (in historical context).

I like and admire Tchaikovsky, but I love Dvorak; and moving slightly forward in time Prokofiev reigns in my book.

I reluctantly admire Wagner (I know, I know), but I adore the other Richard, Strauss; and to a slightly lesser degree, Leos Janacek.

I admire Brad Mehldau, but I adore Herbie Hancock.

I admire Stravinsky, but I love Bartok; and, if in the right mood, Alban Berg.

I admire Aaron Copland, but I love Bernstein.

I admire Jascha Heifetz, but I love Nathan Milstein.

I admire Oscar Peterson, but I love Kenny Barron.

I admire and like Count Basie, but I adore Ellington.

I admire Frank Sinatra, but I love Tony Bennett. There is great joy of singing in Bennett. Sinatra often sounds to me as if he is doing the listener a favor by singing.

I admire Karajan, but I love Kleiber.

I admire Maurizio Pollini, but there is simply something about Murray Perahia that pushes my buttons. Love his playing.

I admire Nina Simone, but I love Dinah Washington.


I could go on, but I need my morning coffee. Interesting thread. Thanks!

Wow! Thanks frogman indeed for all this food for our tought...

Especially i am in the same boat than you for Gesualdo, one of the absolute master of music....My admiration with him has go to the roof inducing after the first listenings a special love/ passion, like for Scriabin his russian brother in some way.... I put them on the same class of transforming promethean geniuses of the soul with Monteverdi for example that create by himself a "new world" where all of us can and could  live ....

I will need to read many times your post to try something new for me....

Merry Christmas....

Frogman. I love your post. I got to say, though, that I've always found that my like vs. love selections do seem to change over time.  In other words, sometimes you can be too picky.

I got to say, though, that I’ve always found that my like vs. love selections do seem to change over time.

Very good point....

That make me able to say something very important: my thread questions are NOT about our tastes first and foremost, BUT about the way music affect our own evolution and our way to be conscious of that....I begin to think about this mysterious fact that there is musicians and composers that even if i admire them, i dont love them so much....There exist also musician that i love at first sight without being able to say in the beginning that even if i admired them in the first place...

Chet Baker was the best example of that for me...Is his playing a good virtuoso playing or a very elemtary one?
But is was also evident at first listening that Miles Davis was a giant to be admired and his playing virtualistic and creative, but i do not enter in a love story with him at the levl of what i sensed with Chet Baker, even after the pleasure of listening Miles often...

In classical music it is impossible to not admire Shoenberg, it is a true genius; but i never loved him at all; in the contrary i loved Scriabin at first listening without even knowing whats his music is all about....

I dont express that to express or glorify my tastes, i want to think about this phenomenon: Music changes our body and soul metabolism... How and why?


Then confronting different "tastes" and habits can be an  enlarging and a modifying of  our own consciousness....

Audio tastes or music tastes are not walker of a long way walk....But our evolution history in the understanding of audio and music are better road for the best hikers....And the beginning journey of a sea of deep questions....