I heard the Box

tomc6-
Chuck, one thing has always cast doubt on your superior hearing abilities for me. It’s your claim that there is no difference between the sound of different tubes. I can’t understand how someone who can hear the difference between his cable elevators with and without rubber bands can’t hear the difference between a current production Russian made Mullard, a vintage Telefunken and a vintage Amperex. Maybe you’ve changed your mind about that. Have you?

First, that "I've always dreamed" line was teasing.

But as for tubes, Whoa, whoa, whoa! No way I ever said that!

Not even. What I said is tube rolling is a crapshoot - IF that is all you are doing. I stand by that comment. If all you are doing is trying tubes hoping to find ones that will sound better, well they are out there but your chances of finding "the one" are so low you are much better off to put your time and money and effort into things with a lot higher chance of actually making a positive improvement. There are a lot of such things, and for a lot less money. Tube prices are all over the place, but a guy could easily spend $500 tube rolling and in the end have nothing to show for it but some nice backups. While that same $500 could buy a Fuse, some ECT or HFT, some Cable Elevators- or a power cord, any number of things, each of which will be a lot better than the tubes.

But, and this is an important but, this all depends on what you mean by tube rolling. I'm assuming the normal, "Hey guys what do you think?" approach. Waste of time and money. Which is in total contrast to what I am doing now, talking with Dave Thomas of Raven, a guy who totally knows his tubes. Whole different ball game.

I think you will agree this is a lot more refined and sophisticated view than saying there's no difference between tubes. I've said all along there definitely are differences. Heck, I recommend JJ for their great sound quality and reliability at a good price. So I know there are differences in sound quality, because I have heard them. 

So I have no problem hearing differences between tubes. No problem picking the best ones either. Only problem I have is the shotgun approach. Rifle and scope, I am all over it. Why I'm calling Dave Thomas. Literally. Left him another message just before writing this.

OK. I’m glad to hear that your position on tubes has evolved

Just to make sure that my memory hasn’t become entirely unreliable, I did a quick search and came across this post:

millercarbon9,639 posts05-07-2019 2:01pm

I’ve tried a bunch over the years. Save your money. There’s differences sure but once you get past noisy/old to good/new I just don’t think the remaining differences are worth much. Especially when you can get a whole lot more improvement from something like a Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse or a set of ECTs. Either of which cost about what a set of tubes will run you but you get a lot more improvement and unlike the tubes if you don’t like em you just send em back.

Tube rolling Question | Audiogon Discussion Forum

I’m not saying that you didn’t believe what you stated in today’s post back in 2019. I’ll just assume you didn’t have time for the more nuanced reply you made today. I agree with your assertion that it’s best to seek out knowledgeable help when rolling tubes. Tubes have gotten expensive.

I do think that tubes offer at least as much potential improvement as other tweaks such as fuses. Tweaking is very system and listener dependent. Fuses might be the way to go in one system, tubes in another.

"Design and "time" don’t rhyme. It’s close though (both words share the long "i" sound, but the "n" and "m" are dissimilar), which is why in the world of songwriting that is considered a "lazy" rhyme (with no pejorative intent).

How ’bout "Once you go Tekton Design, your music sounds divine"? ;-)

Only the A-25 in Walnut veneer offered boxless sonics…..
I have a pair in the garage , itself…. A box

Pianos, guitars, basses are all boxes, more or less, and wooden.  A well designed box is a work of art, a cheap one not so much.  British speakers of the BBC heritage, like my graham audio boxes, are designed with the box in mind, not to silence them into submission.  Perhaps a little ‘boxy’ but musical and natural to my ears.