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Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker - Sounds Worse?

I picked up a Phoenix USB Reclocker, mint condition store demo.  I think this must be the first of many, many reports where the Phoenix does NOT seem to improve the sound.  So many posts and review after review indicate positive results with this device added to systems.  I’ve not seen one single account where the results weren’t clearly superior.  Yet that seems to be the case for me, sadly!  
 

My system:

  • Gryphon Diablo 300 with DAC module
  • Innuos Zenith Mk 3 with Roon/Tidal HiFi
  • Innuos Phoenix Reclocker
  • AudioQuest Hurricane Source power cords connected to a Niagara 1200 conditioner 
  • AudioQuest Dragon High Current power cord connected between my amp and the wall
  • Two AudioQuest Diamond USB cables
  • Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables
  • B&W 803 D2 speakers

Adding the reclocker makes the sound more constrained, tighter, with less separation, and is generally less engaging.  This seems to be almost the opposite of 100% of everyone else’s experiences.  I thought maybe the new USB cord needed to be broken in (it’s been 40 hours now) but I don’t think it could be this much worse prior to completing the breakin.  And the Reclocker was a demo so in theory it should be broken in.

Some may theorize that my Gryphon DAC may be better and that the Reclocker is dragging my DAC down instead of elevating it.  But that logic I don’t think makes sense, because the Phoenix reclocker tech is included in Innuos’ top Uber expensive Statement.  I can’t imagine that the Statement in my system would sound worse than my Zenith Mk III which is less than half the cost!

Not sure what’s up…  I will give it another few days and then contact Innuos to see if they have any thoughts.

 

nyev
nyev OP
1,031 posts
 

Thanks all.  @dpetr, maybe you are right.  I’ve seen this question come up about the Phoenix before, where the question is raised as to whether the Phoenix is redundant with some DACs.  But many people have said the Phoenix seems to improve sound across any DAC at all.  I’ve seen a few discussions speculating as to why that is.  And again, considering this reclocker tech is also in the expensive Statement, I can’t see how it should actually degrade my sound…

I’ll try the few things mentioned here, wait a few days to see if things settle, and then contact Innuos if it still doesn’t sound great to see if they have any ideas.

Last resort I will have a Phoenix reclocker, Hurricane source power cord, and Diamond USB cable for sale to help find my speaker upgrade….  

mike_in_nc
1,147 posts
 

Maybe you should sell it. My experience has been that modern USB chipsets don’t benefit from a reclocker. Why should they? The receiving end controls the clock, anyway.

Nonetheless, I used a reclocker (Mutec MC-3+USB) before my Classe CP-800, and it helped. When I switched to a newer, better (yet cheaper) Anthem STR Preamp, the reclocker harmed the sound in about the way you have described.

In your case, a reclocker may be an unnecessary audiophile gadget. Consider being glad your DAC doesn’t need it. Simplicity is nice!

nyev OP
1,031 posts
 

@mike_in_nc, totally agree with the “simplicity is nice principle”. I know that on paper it seems it maybe unnecessary with my DAC, but if you look up the reviews and forum posts, there is an overwhelming number of folks who say this device improves sound, including many who have tested it with DACs that are far better than mine! Not one single person has had my experience with this product.  I know dealers are biased, but also @audiotroy said that they’ve tested this product with many top DACs with positive results.  Maybe @audiotroy can chime in with any ideas?

I did find that the one scenario where the Reclocker degrades things is if you connect it to Innuos’ top of the line Statement streamer/server. This is because it already has the same reclocker internally so it truly does become redundant, and the added cabling degrades the sound. But that’s it!

 

 

mike_in_nc
1,147 posts
 

@nyev - It is not just dealers who are biased. We audiophiles tend to be prey to expectation bias, in spades. That’s what keeps the used audio market churning.

As to trusting what some guys you don't know say on the Internet, good luck with that.  (Me, too.) Yes, there can be real information content; just let your own ears be the final arbiter. You don't know anyone's motivations, hearing ability, or really, even what gear they have or if they are catfishing.

I’ll just say that again, trust your own ears. If you want, invite friends over and do a single-blind test. You may find (as I did with some $$$ cables) that something theoretically not needed really is not needed!

I wish you good luck with it.

nyev OP
1,031 posts
 

@mike_in_nc , totally agree with what you are saying, but I do have one exception. To get around “consumer bias”, let’s call it, I generally trust the internet ONLY if 1) Sources are reporting all the same things with no disagreement, and 2) There are many, many such reports.

This approach so far hasn’t led me astray, including in this instance, because…. There’s been a breakthrough!

I’ve been running everything constantly for a few days, and I decided to check in on how things were sounding. To my surprise everything sounded open, dynamic, and with more impact. I thought maybe it’s just me having overly low expectations, so I removed the Reclocker to compare. Sure enough, with the Reclocker is undeniably better.

Chalk it up to another case of underestimating the degree of impact burnin makes. Or, another audiophile being falsely tricked into thinking what they are hearing is great!

Going to do more tests later to try to validate what I’m hearing, but right now, the Phoenix reclocker is here to stay….  Really, really loving the sound.  Amazing how different it is today.

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