Is a separate phono pre really necessary?

I have had phono in a Shindo Aurieges and I thought it was excellent. I also am liking mine in the Audible Illusions M3B....I had both running thru a SUT so that may also make a difference of sorts....I havent had too much luck with outboard phono stages but I havent spent a lot of time or money with them...the best one I had was a Rogue Audio Magnum with blue cinemas, I believe it was and I felt the Shindo pre w/phono easily bested it.. 

@beatlebum That was another option I was considering. I was a bit hesitant because of the loading options are not as flexible as the amps I mention but Sutherland seems to consistently get good reviews which speaks well of the brand.

@bkeske I had the same feeling at 1k as well. But I've decided to use a SUT for greater dynamic punch but with the loss of that shine and sparkle you mentioned because of the need to use 47k with the SUT. This was why I'm tentatively leaning towards phono stages with adjustable loading (and maybe higher gain than what I currently have at +60db)

The wrinkle is the loading requirements for the zephyr mimic star: >= 470 ohms. This makes a lot of phone preamps really not suitable for this cartridge

You can make cartridge loading plug with desired resistance for your phono stage.

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/cartridge-loading-plugs_topic1246.html

@smanuel 

I’ve settled at 1,000 and 60db on my Hagerman. I also have 64 & 68 available (nice to have for lower output carts), but the MIMC sounds pretty darn good at 60.