2. amps-preamps
  3. 176614-122223

Is a separate phono pre really necessary?

I have an upgraded Rega P3 that is now essentially a P6 (groove tracer subplatter and counter weight, Rega Neo ps) that has a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC star mounted on it. It is then connected to a Park Audio Budgie Ten SUT and then to a Rogue Audio RP-5 preamp.

This question is about the phono stage in the RP-5. Would upgrading to a separate phone preamp of around $1,000 to $2,000 be a worthwhile upgrade from the internal phone preamp in the RP-5? And if so which phone pre do you guys recommend (notwithstanding all the caveats about subjectivity). I'm thinking of the soundsmith mcp-2, PS audio stellar phono, parasound jc3 jr., maybe a Manley Chinook if I can find a good deal.

The wrinkle is the loading requirements for the zephyr mimic star: >= 470 ohms. This makes a lot of phone preamps really not suitable for this cartridge (hence premaps with adjustable loading via a pot) because of the static loading options are mostly well below 470 ohms on most phono preamps

smanuel
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sokogear
1,095 posts
 

+1 @beatlebum Had a perfectly good phono stage on my Plinius integrated that was adjustable from MM to MC, but when I went to the Sutherland Insight (and then added the LPS after getting a nice deal on a used one) the improvement was immediate and noticeable. 20/20 is great too, but a good bit more if you go for the LPS, which on that model is in an external box. Is it worth it? My dealer told me I would be thrilled with either one, so I kept the difference, but coming to think of it, there were no used 20/20s out there, so it made my decision easier, saving about 50%, $1000. And Ron Sutherland is a great guy - guided me through the LPS upgrade process himself on the Insight.

harrylavo's avatar
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harrylavo
346 posts
 

Is the transformer you are using made specifically for this cartridge?  If so, then you may receive little benefit from the additon of a phono state, which in fact will create redundancy with the stage already in the rogue.   Make sure you have the right loading, right cables, right stylus setup, and all before you spend money on a separate phono preamp.  If the Roque's phono section is good, then at most you should be looking to add a headamp, not a full phono preamp.  

If you insist on having a separate preamp, perhaps you should look at Rogue's own, which has variable loading options including a custom setting if I recall correctly.

jfuquay
107 posts
 

I’m going to say that the designer of a built-in phono stage has the goal of producing an input that the broadest range of customers will find “pleasant.” The phono stage in my Rogue Sphinx is very pleasant. When I started looking for a separate, I started asking what I wanted to hear. It’s a pretty fine line and so subjective. I ended up happy with the PS Audio Stellar. They occasionally have sales of about 30% off and their trade-ins are generous.

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
4,968 posts
 

I had the RP-5 and used its internal phono stage with Hana EL cartridge. I was not impressed. I switched to MoFi UltraPhono and it was slightly better but still not what I was looking for (exciting sound but kind of flat in the soundstage department) so I returned it and bought a Sutherland KC Vibe MkIi. Very happy with it. The Hana cartridge calls for >400ohn loading and the Sutherland is perfect at 475. A very notable step up from what Rogue includes in the RP-5  

The Vibe MkII loading options include 100, 200, 475, 1k or 47kOhms. 
It’s quiet, resolving and very natural sounding. Build quality is top notch.  
I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. 

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