Is your image centred?

Couldn't improper azimuth shift an image?

It may, but it would have to be grossly off. Usually, azimuth just makes the image sharper. However, that is not really what Luna is asking about.

I had the same problem that Luna had and It drove me nut: Some LPs and CDs OF THE SAME MATERIAL exhibit dissimilarity in center imaging (My digital front end was Ayre C5xe). I re-set up my turntable starting from realign cartridges, played around with VTF, Anti-skating, VTA, Azimuth, changing cartridges (including Sumiko Blackbird, Koetsu Urushi, Cardas Heart, Lyra Helikon), arms (Triplanar, SME IV.Vi, Origin Live Conqueror, Graham Phantom), tables (Avid Acutus, SME 20/2), cables then played around with speaker set up, even changed amps (BAT VK-75SE, BAT VK-150SE, Cary CAD-211AE) and preamp. Some of the components made the problem more or less obvious, but none of the above solved it.

I consulted with many experienced people (including Michael Fremer, Wally and respectable dealer such as The Analog Room (where the Wavestream phonostage is from). While some of them experienced the same situation, none could give a definite explanation.

I also took these discs and played them on my friends systems with the same results.

While most of my MONO and many Stereo LPs can be dead center, In most cases, my LPs and CDs (of the same material) do not sound similarly in term of center image, and CD seems to have less of a problem.

I then drew a conclusion that my analog system (or systems) were just playing what was embedded in the groove. HOW and WHY the information in the groove does not conjure up the same center image as the CDs do, I have no idea. It could be the LP manufacture process is more prone to imperfection which in turn effect the original signal in such a way, or could be the way LP or CD mastered is different?, The list could go on and on..

But i came to accept that it's not my system's fault.

****I do not mind when the "center image" (meaning the soloist or singer) is not center, as long as that is the intention of the recording/ mixing engineer. But the same material (same source) sounds different on CD and LP (different formats) in term of balance...that bugs the heck out of me..must be something not right going on !!! ******

Regarding Azimuth, I do not believe that it has an effect on making an image centered or not. It helps the images to get into focus, but not to an extend to move them that much.

I do use anti-skating, but just enough to keep both channels from mistrack as much as possible. Because the inward skating force is ALWAYS there once the offset headshell that carries the cartridge hits the groove, I feel it 's better to compensate for it as much (and balanced) as possible than rather than doing nothing at all and let the L groove wall subjected to more force than the R wall constantly.

In my experience, Anti-skating has very little effect on output balance and how center an image is. It rather just depicts how clean (less distortion due to tracking error) the sound is. I would LOVE to be successful in using anti skating like "a balance knob" as some mentioned above !

These based on my limit experience. I' d love to hear more inputs so i can learn more.

Dear Luna: In normal conditions I never experienced that trouble, the voice always ( almost ) is dead center on my system and if it is not then something is faulty every where on my system.

+++++ " . If your image is moving around, it's a fault and I would look at your setup. " +++++

so I agree with Stringreen.

When the image " suffer " a shift to one side then I know that something is wrong ( it happen to me more than one time ): sometimes a loose headshell wire, a loose internal tonearm cable, that the tonearm or headshell wires are connected ( by mistake ) in different way than left+/white, right+/red, left-/blue and right-/green , even a phono stage failure on differences on gain between channels, cartridge out of specs, tonearm internal wiring, that the tonearm/phono stage cable is wired in a wrong way, etc, etc.

Your analog rig was out of work for many years as the phono stage so IMHO you have a fault elsewhere, it is not normal what you are " suffering " about.

Well that's is MHO and my experiences about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, when the image shifts differently while the LP is playing and differently from LP to LP, to me that does not act like loose wires or worn caps. Have you never heard a singer's voice centered at one point in the soundstage and then shift to somewhere else during another passage of the song? Not just LPs, I have many CDs that are mastered this way. But we don't really know exactly what Luna is experiencing without hearing it for ourselves, so it doesn't hurt to check everything.

I'm with Dan_ed on this one, this is soundstaging. Images are never always going to be centered, producers and engineers fool with this stuff all the time. If a hard or medium panned image was centered this would be wrong.

Also, these images often shift within a song, a voice on the right side may shift to the left side over the length of the song. Cds do this as well.

On the other hand, one may have issues with a weak center image, this is generally due to room interaction issues. It could also be setup or electronic issues.

I think Luna is experiencing mixing anomalies on lps. If he never has a strong center image then it is something else. The one thing I don't get, is why he doesn't seem to have this issue with his digital.