Jadis Defy can't sing with super high Fidelity PART 2

The first input tube position has the most impact on sonics. The Philips SQ are giving you the magic.

You’re using 12AU7’s, so the Philips PQ are ECC82’s and not ECC80, correct?

I’m running a pair and they truly are outstanding. FYI, the Philips PQ is the same tube as the Amperex premium; same tooling, same construction, both made in the Heerlen, Holland factory.

The tube says SQ special quality E80CC
the other side has Philips Minwatt E80CC Made in Holland Yes I had a a hunch the Philips SQ and Amperex PQ’s are somehow connected/same factory/same quality.
So I may try to not chase the Philips miniwatt’s up on bid at ebay, swiss sell has like 10 pairs,,I am winning on 3 pairs, but i know they go for $200/pr and i am at $35+ship, so I may not chase those Philips Miniwatt 12ax7 and go look for amperex PQ(premiun quality) as a cheaper substitue/same tube.
Wonder if the tall Siemens E80CC tall bottle are same quality sopund repro,  as Philips tall bottle, ??? I bought 4 more Philops tall and also 2 Siemens tall bottle. Overseas seller, will arrive in 2 weeks, will makea A/B with Philips.
~~~@lowrider57~~
Yes my hunch says it really does not matter which 12ax7 is behind the Philips SQE80CC as it is the PSQ making most if not all the magic happen,,as the Amperex BB’s (shipped off to a guy selling on ebay for me) and the new Psvane 12AU’s, neither lab comes even close to the Philips SQ, Faith Hill’s voice comes incredible alive with passion.
No snakeoil/hype here, I am telling you its like Night/day.
I had no idea the 2 front AU’s were that soniaclly important in sound quality.
I could have used every other AU in the world, Tele/Siemens etc etc,,and the Defy would remain DEO ,,,that is until the P SQ’s came to breathe life into the Jadis.
Yes , it is that dramatic in resolution. bass is unreal,,and get this,,the vol on the **Cheap chinese tube pre** is on little gain, I mean i could easily live with this **cheap** chinese Lite LS9 pre,,its not so cheap now,
had I used these Philips SQ’s in my JOR, I may not have sold it off. = the JOR would have suited me just fine,,i did not need this 70lb Defy7.
I think when word gets out about these NOS/old stock P SQ’s, the prices will jump double over night.
I am loading up now,

All tall bottle EC80’s will be hot items. I have Siemens tall’s arriving in 2 weeks,,will test vs the P SQ’s.

I will definetly sell off this Lite LS9 pre and buy the Cayin SC6 Mark2,,which employs 4 ~~~AU7’s~~~ as drivers.
Will dump the stock cayin tubes and place in PSQ or Siemens tall bottle.
I am trying to buy some P 12AX or Amperex PQ’s, to test against the Shugaung 12AX7T’s.
The Psvane AU’s look identical to the Shu AX7T’s construction.
My hunch is the Shu T series is really not so special in sound resolution, when in fact the P SQ is making all the magic haoppen. and so i need to know if the PSQ 12AX7 and/or the Amperex PQ 12AX7 ~~~possess this same magical quality as the PSQE80CC.
I can return the Au’s fora partial reffund to the US seller, but the 4 Shu I purchased from Douk/HK = return too expensive.
If I hear only slight dif in rolling AX’s, i will sell off the Philips/Amperex, and keep the Shu12AX7T’s.

OK, now I'm with you.
https://www.ebay.com/c/7017859417

You have Miniwatts. I have the Philips 7316 SQ, same as Amperex PQ. These are the premium 12AU7's.
You're right, Philips Miniwatts have a great sound and are affordable. I have a pair but they are short bottle.

~~~Premium~~~ AU's,,,,well I kinda of think they area  special design AU = very unlike the short bottle = designed to push the AU to its very limits. 
I say thise because i'd bet any other short bottle would not match the magic of the Big Boys (=Tall Bottle = PSQe80CC). From the way these Philips ((((= same factory as Amperex = Amperex makes the tube FOR Philips = still i consider it Philips and not Amperex..why? because Philips engineers had something to do with the design = NOT Amperex)))
Considering how well these *mini watts SQ sounded,,i went and bid/won a  whole bunch of Philips Miniwatts AX's today on ebay,,,any of you bidding, yeah it wwas I out bidding you. I havea  nice stash and will only need 4, the other 10 I will sell at a  nice price..I am gambling on the PSQAX, that is also merits the magic of its bigger brother the E80CC = The tall boy. 
I'm guessing on a  hunch,,we  will see  in some weeks (comming from Swizerland). 
It will be a  shootout 
New design Shugaung 12AX7T vs Philips NOS Miniwatt AX. 
Repeating what i wrote above and other threads here on audiogon/also on DIYer forum, 
The PSQ E80CC is the center piece of my entire system, = SEAS Thos/Cayin 17/jadis Defy are all dependent and revolve around the 
~~~PSQE80CC.~~
= w/o the PSQE80CC, the entire system is dead.
At least with this Lite LS9 chinese pre,,,, = lets add a  Prima Luna pre with 6 au's, using any NOS tube (other than the PSQ),,,or the cayin SC6 pre,,,its quite possible the system will come to life. 
But lets think about it, I havea  serious weakness in my system, the Lite LS9 clone Jadis 200, (weighs 10 lbs vs the  real deal Jadis pre weighs 50+ lbs)  anyway,,if the PSQ can make magic with this weak pre,,,think what 6 PSQ ina  Prima Luna or 4 in the cayin SC6 would do???
Unthinkable. Off the charts..
I suggest, if someone is considering buyinga  tube amp/pre,,make sure has AU section. When the Philips Miniwatts AX's (= PMWAX hench forth) arrive i am curious how much the Shugaung is adding to the system (or taking away) and how the PMWAX  performed. 
This way I can determine to what degree the PSQE80CC is  carrying the magic. 
That is, if i can not hear much dif twix the Shu vs the PMWAX,,then i know for certian, it really does not matter which AX is employed, AS LONG AS THE AU section has the PSQE80CC, as The Critical Pre Tube. 
I believe it was lowrider57 who mentions the AU is the critical tube for a  tube amp. 
That is more can be gained froma  true high fidelity AU than a  true high fidelity AX. I agree. 
The AU  section holds the key position ijna  tube amp.  I will go futher,,,w/o a  true high fidelity AU, it really does not matter what AX's/power tubes one is running. 
Let me be clear, a  $500 pair Tele or Siemens in the AX section along with *Holy Grails* power tubes,,,will not make much of a ~~splash~~~ until one emplys a  true high fidelity AU,,the top dog THF(= truehighfidelity = no snakeoil/no hype= The real deal) is the PSQE80CC. all other AU's (yes even the Siemens/Tele $$$$$$$$$ Holy Grail AU's) will lose in a  shootout with 
~~The Big Boys~~ = PSQE80CC. 
as I say my system's true center piece in not Jadis, not SEAS, not cayin, but the PSQE80CC holds center stage. It is the Sun in my system;s solar system. 
All else are like planets revolving around the PSQE80CC. 
Hope some of this can be understood.
,,later