Left and right subwoofers with integrated

jjss49:" good advice given

stereo subs are wonderful, transformative of many systems

good for you!"

tony1954,

     Just for the record and your edification, there's no such thing as 'stereo bass' or 'stereo subs' beyond my description in my last post of the bass fundamental bass tones below about 80 Hz being reproduced by a pair of mono subs, which we cannot localize, and the bass harmonics or overtones of the fundamental bass tones, which often extend beyond about 80 Hz that we can localize,being reproduced by the main stereo speakers.  Our brains are able to associate the bass harmonics or overtones, that are above 80 Hz and coming from the main stereo speakers, with the fundamental bass tones, that are below 80 Hz and coming from the subs, and create the perception of stereo bass.
     I suspect some individuals confuse these stereo bass perceptions created by our brain's amazing associative abilities with the results of simply physically configuring their system with separate l+r channel subs in their systems.  They just don't completely understand the true cerebral associative forces at work and believe their "stereo sub" configuration is responsible for them perceiving stereo deep bass. 
     In my opinion, this is a common and understandable mistake which, ultimately, is not that big a deal.  No matter whether we configure our subs in stereo or mono operation, the final result is the same: we're all actually listening to mono deep bass from the subs and stereo harmonics from our main stereo speakers while our brains are doing the heavy lifting and creating the perception of stereo deep bass. 

Tim 

Tim is of course absolutely correct. This is something I was able to confirm by running my DBA both ways, stereo and mono. Makes no difference because even connected to L and R channels the signal is the same. Nevertheless, it sure does sound like stereo! It shows how very different we hear very low bass compared to 100Hz and up. When higher frequencies are played mono it all seems to come from right between the speakers. Mono recordings everything is in a sort of sphere dead center. But with bass its not like that at all. Low bass is mono and yet sounds stereo. The bass from a DBA is 3D and has location just as real as the rest of the stage. This can only be because somehow we integrate the higher with the lower frequencies into one holographic 3D soundscape. Really wish more people would do this, so more than a half a dozen like me and Tim would know what we're talking about.

I use MB Columns, 100-300 hz, VERY stereo.. 48-74" tall. Changes the whole way thing sound.. Took most of the little ripples out of the neighbors swimming pool. No kidding.. Wife’s not yelling turn down the music or BASS. I turned OFF two of my 300 lb bass bins, I use 1-3 smaller bass units, full DSP, depends on the music.

BUT I can get serious...Waves in the neighbors pool!!!

Regards

I'm looking at a picture on-line of the back of the M6Si integrated.

It has L and R preouts.

Am I missing something?

noble100

... there’s no such thing as ’stereo bass’ or ’stereo subs’ beyond my description in my last post of the bass fundamental bass tones below about 80 Hz being reproduced by a pair of mono subs, which we cannot localize, and the bass harmonics or overtones of the fundamental bass tones, which often extend beyond about 80 Hz that we can localize ... No matter whether we configure our subs in stereo or mono operation, the final result is the same: we’re all actually listening to mono deep bass from the subs ...

This canard has been around the audio world for generations, and it’s easy to see why. The fact is that it is extremely difficult to localize LF, and it’s much easier to integrate mono bass into a stereo system than stereo bass. As a result, monophonic subwoofer systems often sound better than many attempts to do stereo in the same system. (Indeed, when using mono bass, you can use multiple subwoofers - as @noble100 has touted many times - placed around the room where the effects of bass nodes can be best managed. That wouldn’t work with a stereo subwoofer system.)

But let’s be clear: Just because it’s difficult to localize monophonic bass, and just because installing satisfactory monophonic bass systems is easier and more practical than keeping the bass stereo, does not mean that all bass is mono. It isn’t, and the biggest clue that it isn’t is the audible result of phase differences in the stereo LF signal. (This is where stereo bass deniers often chime in with, "But all records and CDs are pressed with mono bass so it doesn’t make any difference!" And with those recordings, they’re correct.)

I’ve previously posted links to original research on this topic. In particular, studies done into lossy compression and hearing perception revealed this truth about stereo bass, as well as accepting that as a practical matter, it doesn’t really matter most of the time.

Wanna hear stereo bass? Get some good recordings with lotsa LF- it’s best if you use your own for reference - and listen to them on truly full-range speakers in a proper system. I’m talking about something such as the Infinity IRS Beta system, or Genesis Quartet. Then you’ll understand that stereo bass can be real, even if it’s elusive and, frankly, often of dubious practical appeal.

My introduction to stereo bass was by the late Mike Kay at Lyric using the big Infinity IRS V system. He loved demonstrating the reality of stereo LF.