Linn LP12......That good??


I have an Ariston RD80 (very good) and a Thorens TD 160, also very good.
How good are the Linn Lp12 tt's??
I am always looking for the best most impressive sound.
I will have to sell the Ariston/Thorens if i buy the Linn because i will not need 3 turntables!
The Ariston almost looks like the Linn by the way.
So how great are the Linn's and what is the best combination to buy?
Thanks!
x1884
@bdp24 - but Atkinson may be right about that. Last time I heard James Hunter, that blue-eyed soul devil with the killer band, I was reminded of how good rock and roll sounds with a double bass. Tone, tension, and a less "thudding" sound even when amplified. PITA to haul I guess, like a real B-3 rather than an electronic emulation of one. 
There was a lawyer once in a matter that thought it was pronounced like the fish-
Life can be endlessly amusing if you are willing to take the ride.
"How much does a 'real VPI' cost these days??"

Good question! As much a souped up Linn! The VPI Prime Signature is about $6K; the Avenger Standard is $10K; the bespoke Classic Direct is about $35.

Since getting into this insane hobby in 1975, I had always wanted a Linn Sondek LP12. When I purchased it used, I spent about $800. This included the table, the Cotter cables, and the tonearm. I bought a Sumiko Blackbird, which is no slouch when it comes to cartridges, and a Clearaudio phono preamp. Even with all of that I couldn't get good sound out of it, even after tweaking the suspension, it was still not good. I think the comments made here about the table being quirky are very true.

I knew that my table's Achilles heel was the Grace tonearm. But my financial decision came down to this: should I invest in something brand-new, or should I throw money -- at least $1K or more -- at a 30-some-odd-year old turntable with one speed. I chose the former and bought a VPI player. And, I have to say, out of the box, using their internal phono preamp, it sounded worlds apart from the Linn, better than I expected.

That's my story.
The VPI cost question can be answered at $7k for the HRX listed for sale here on Audiogon. I am not a fan of the arm (own one) but if you are then that is one heck of a rig.

Dave
Ok guys, you do realize that any table is only going to be as good as its weakest part....and if that part is the arm, then blaming the table for the weaknesses in the arm, is imho a little crazy!!!
The LP12 is a system, which is what makes it a great deal imo. One can start out at a low level, and as funds allow, improve the table to SOTA. How many other tables can you say that about?
audiovideonirvana, do you think it is ok to decry the LP12 based on your experience with an 80’s model,and even by your admittance, a sub par arm that you were listening to???
compare today a new Klimax level LP12 with a Radikal D against any VPI you care to mention....I know which one I would pick....!
which is why I own the LP12 and not the VPI.
YMMV.

With all due respect Bill, John is not right. I’ve played with a few stand-up bass players (plus a "stand-up electric bass" player, but that's another story), and you’re right, a stand-up sounds very different from an electric. A good way to appraise the quality of a sub (or the woofer of a full-range loudspeaker) is to play a good recording of an acoustic bass through it; the better the sub, the more you hear it’s true timbre, tone, and woody resonance, which is markedly different than that of an electric bass. The hollow body of an acoustic has much more depth than does the electric’s solid plank of wood, only the sound of it’s vibrating strings being amplified. Some early Rock ’n’ Roll and Blues recordings contain the stand-up bass playing of Willie Dixon. Modern day Rockabilly bands wouldn’t dare have an electric bass---that would be sacrilege!

One stand-up player I worked with put a pick-up on his, running it into his electric’s amp. The other was more of a purist, using a microphone. Atkinson apparently believes that an electric bass, by virtue of it not having the large, hollow body of a stand-up, is now the mythical "bass guitar". There are a couple of things wrong with that belief:

1- The bass, and the guitar, are tuned an octave apart, the guitar, obviously, the higher. Putting a pick-up on a bass does not change that fact. Whether the bass is a solid body electric, or a hollow body acoustic/stand-up, they are tuned the same, and play the same notes---bass notes. They are both basses---one an electric, the other an acoustic. The fact that the electric has the movement of it’s strings turned into an electronic signal does not change the fact that the notes of those strings are still bass notes, not guitar notes. The same can be said about an electronic organ; a Hammond B3 is just as much an organ as is a Pipe Organ, not by virtue of it being electronic now being named something else. An electronic organ vs. a pipe organ, an electric bass vs. a stand-up bass---same difference.

Atkinson is not the first to call the electric bass a bass guitar, and neither I nor any bass players I know have any idea where that originated. What is surprising about Atkinson using that term is that it is commonly used by beginners and non-players, never, and I mean never, by seasoned bass players themselves. If you call the instrument in the hands of a good and/or pro bassist a "bass guitar", he will either take that as an insult, or dismiss it as coming from someone who just doesn’t know any better ;-).

2- An electric guitar and an acoustic guitar play the exact same notes as each other (assuming they are both 6-string versions, and tuned the same). The solid body and the pick-ups of an electric guitar does not make it instead a bass ukulele, if you follow my analogy. It is still a guitar, just an electric one. Same with an electric bass.

3- The standard electric bass has four strings. In the early 1960’s, Fender came out with a 6-string bass, naming it the Fender 6. It was still considered a bass, it’s four lowest strings tuned the same as those of a 4-string, the two extra strings tuned, as with the others, an octave above the corresponding strings on a guitar. Brian Wilson sometimes had one of his three bassists play one, the other two being a solid body Fender electric an a stand-up acoustic. Guitarist Duane Eddy played some of his distinctive early 60’s songs on a Fender 6---very cool sounding! The Fender 6 used lighter-gauge strings than a 4-string electric bass, and it’s tone was about halfway between a 4-string and an electric guitar. It was still considered a bass, though if any instrument could conceivably be called a bass guitar, it would have been the Fender 6.

In one sense, it’s just a matter of semantics---everyone knows what instrument is being referred to when someone says bass guitar. But come on, think about it literally: what the heck is a bass guitar? That’s an oxymoron!