2. amps-preamps
  3. 157586-133272

Loudness - Why has the industry stopped producing amplifiers with this feature any longer?

I listen to music at all times of the day and night (solid sleep eludes me the older I get).  My favorite times are when the family is gone and I can select the listening level, mostly moderate to higher volumes.  But the simply fact is I find myself listen at lower levels much more often then my preferred listening mode.

Piggybacking on a discussion regarding low level listening here on Audiogon, I'm posing the question:  Why has the majority of industry stopped producing amplifiers with this feature any longer?

I look forward to your input
Ag insider logo xs@2xtenbar
ebm
9,311 posts
 
Because nobody uses it.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,754 posts
 
The problem with a loudness function is that there is no way to set it up right. The idea is based on the Fletcher-Munson curve, which is variable depending on sound pressure. So the loudness has to be variable, the problem is knowing how to set it. With **all** loudness controls that are essentially a tap on a volume control with an emphasis network, there is a correct setting of the control with a particular speaker, and with a particular source. So if you have two sources that are at different output levels you'll need to have a different volume control setting to obtain the desired volume, but now the loudness emphasis is different. Obviously they can't both be right, and if you don't happen to be sitting the correct distance from the loudspeaker with which the amp was designed, it will never be right.

Now some amps had in addition to a volume control, a loudness control too, so you could variably set the emphasis; the problem here is knowing where to set the control. About all you know there is that if you have the volume set lower, you might want the loudness set higher?? But the reality is that you can't have any idea, not without doing a lot of measurements...

Obviously the result has been since their inception that loudness settings are a gimmick and nothing more. So high end stuff omits it since its entirely useless and only causes colorations. 
Ag insider logo xs@2x
tenbar OP
3 posts
 

Thanks for the thoughts petg60 - Your logic makes sense.  I can see manufacturers cutting costs on non-essential items to remain competitive.  And, I do use the tone controls on my system without loudness.  Doesn't have the same effect but helps.


Thanks atmosphere - appreciate the detail.  I've had loudness variable type (on a McIntosh 4300V receiver) and the switch type on my current McIntosh C41, as well as many vintage Pioneer/Concept models in my youth.  It definitely colors the sound once the volume is increased.  But at low volumes I still find it adds value to the music.

roberttdid
534 posts
 
It is a feature I have seen recently in AV receivers and perhaps processors, but it wasn't labelled loudness. It is all done digitally of course. With many people having all digital systems, it does not make sense in the analog domain. At low listening levels, even digitized vinyl would be hard to argue against versus the alternative (not loudness compensation).
erik_squires
16,010 posts
 
@atmasphere : Yamaha and Denon have both implemented variable loudness controls. (Not sure if Denon does anymore).

While I applaud your neurotic insistence on exact settings, the toggle switch Loudness button on my Luxman's sounds really great.
More to discover