MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?
Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question : " true " answer.
Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.
Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.
In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread I remember that he was truly emphatic posting that my MM conclusion was not true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.
Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.
I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.
I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind ) MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.
So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.
I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.
We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges as an " isolated " audio item and that any of our opinions when be posible stay in the premise: " everything the same ".
My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.
So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.
Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@mijostyn : " and it will not handle high groove velocities near as well as a MI or MC cartridge will. " SG has no mistracking problems as a fact exist many MC/MI that can't handle high velocities recorded LP grooves, not the SG. It's brigthness comes from no RIAA and from its dedicated phono stage but that cartridge ( SS models, not Panasonic or Sao Win. ) tracks everything even at inner grooves.
R. |
Dear @bdp24 : I really don't disagrre with you from your last post but my point of view is a little different due that as we all know each link in the home system chain is overall important but when we are talking of the LP/analogue chain as a " mini-system " the both critical and more important issues other than the LP source and cartridge/tonearm alignment belongs to the cartridge it self and with out doubt the phonolinestage due that the cartridge is the " mini-system " source and the phonolinepreamp is the processor of the source cartridge signal. Exist importance gradation levels in all the system chain and for me that's my gradation for very good reasons.
R. |
Dear friends: I can see that all of you are " inclined " for LOMC or MI cartridges and no one posted yet nothing important about MM cartridge motor designs. Well @dgarretson did it when he posted about Precept cartridge. That fact, at least with the gentlemans that already posted , could says many things and for me says that no one of you were exposed/listened to top MM cartridges that outperforms The Voice or the Statement that mijos " die " for or top today/vintage LOMC cartridges. One gentleman posted that he did not needs to listen MM cartridges and other said that owned the Grace F9 and that's it. Btw, the Grace F9 was in reality as an entry level in the Grace cartridge catalogue but the ones to listen was/is the F14 series that's where a high quality level belongs in Grace manufacturer. Not even audiophiles as @lewm that posted about Stanton where he is an owner is a top MM vs the really top MM cartridges but at the medium step of that ladder, yes a good cartridge but no more than that. I was and am exposed/listen to the true/real top MM quality level performance ladder and that's why I put at the same level that all the other cartridge designs ladder alongits couple top truly to dedicated Pho Stage design that with out it no one can appreciates what I can . Rigth not I'm listening one of those true top MM cartridge coming from Audio Technica: AT ML180 OCC that can beats any SS MI today cartridges but not only the AT outperforms several cartridge today designs but other MM too as: Audio Technica AT36 with today stylus shape: this is a fantastic performer as is the AT 160 LC OCC or the AT 25 but the Technics EPC 100C MK4 ( stand alone unit. ) or the U205CMK4 are incredible performers. Signet TK 10 ML MK2 or the Precept 440 and 550ML both came from AT Group and named by @dgarretson or Pioneer 550E. Yes the JVC X-1 MK2 and Excel ES-70EX4 and I can't let out Shure with the Ultra 500 and the ML 140HE. With out been exposed to one of those MM cartridges along a top first rate dedicated MM phono stage we can't know about MM cartridge performance levels and how it compares against the other cartridge motor designs. I one of you has the rigth MM phono stage and is lucky enough then will can to find out a couple of those MM cartridges by ebay or directly in Yahoo Japan or other japanese web sited nad you can find out for peanuts when outperforms 10K+ yoday any kind of cartridge motor designs: some of them not all today samples of that level.
R. |
@rauliruegas Correct, the SG sound's bright because it does not follow the RIAA curve accurately. That has nothing to do with the fact that it can not track well. I sat with Mr Ledermann for 2 hours discussing and listening to the strain gauge and he freely admitted the SG does not track as well as his MI cartridges. The Hyperion will handle twice the velocity the SG will. He relates the hardest part of designing the SG was getting it's tracking up to the level he could sell it in good conscious. He also relates the SG is kinder to shellac masters causing less wear. I'm not sure how this can happen, but this is coming from him, not me. |
@rauliruegas I have talked recently about the Clearaudio Charisma which I have owned. It is a fun cartridge for rock and roll because it is very dynamic and has great bass, it is also dark, tilted towards the bass. The Voice is a better tracker and is dead neutral. I set up a few inexpensive ATs for friends and I thought they sounded great for the price, but the build quality was questionable. One had a positive rake angle of 76 degrees, comically way off. It was returned for replacement. The Goldring 1042 is the best current MM cartridge I have recently heard, but not in my system and I have not been able to examine one under the microscope. I am not going to go out and purchase a pile of MM cartridges on a lark. My own experience suggests to me that the more expensive cartridges have better overall build quality which should not surprise anyone. In short, I have heard MI cartridges that can compete with the best LOMC cartridges. I have yet to hear a MM cartridge that can compete with the best LOMC cartridges. People will talk lovingly of old MM cartridges as if they were better than strawberry rhubarb pie. I have not had that experience so I can not comment. Back when I had those cartridges, Stantons, Empires, ADC's, Shures, Pickerings and B+O's, my system was not near what it is today. I do find it interesting that my favorite cartridge was the B+O. Go figure. Next I am going to find out just how good or bad these new R T R prerecorded tapes are. I was just given a Nagra IV-SJ! What a beautiful little thing. It's outboard power supply is dead. I have a new one coming. Once I am sure everything is working I'll get the 10.5" adapter set and try a tape. If it does not sound as good as people say it does it will still make a handsome display piece. I do not intend on recording anything myself which is a good thing because it only takes these crazy scientific microphones. I would have to buy an outboard microphone pre amp.
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