Mola Mola Tambaqui Roon vs Separate Streamers

@yyzsantabarbara 

Nagra DACs get PlayBack Designs digital boards. They also do not get the best PBD boards. Those are saved for the cheaper PBD DACs (relative to Nagra). I

That wouldn’t surprise me at all.  Although, looking at the specs (on a phone), I think (“think” being the key word here, not “know”) this refers to the old Nagra DAC, not the DAC X.  The DAC X has a FPGA of unknown origin, spec’d and programmed to Nagra’s design.  That could be PBD, but it doesn’t look to be on the surface.

still the FPGA is not how you’d think they would design a world class DAC, which is both of our’s ultimate point.
 

what is surprising is the Nagra IS world class and sounds awesome and is consistently ranked in the top contenders of DACS in pretty well thought out shoot outs by very disparate reviewers and sophisticated users.  The top several are almost always (in no particular order) :   An MBS; one of the top dCS (Bartok or Vivaldi), the Mola Tambqui (which comes in at a fraction of the price of the others), the Nagra HD DAC X, and then the fifth spot more variable.

missing from the “top” lists I note are some of the most expensive, such as WaDax Reference or Atlantis.  So it’s not just a price list.

And the Nagra gets its sound from the expensive components:  32 (or something) independent power supplies, true dual mono set up, literal hand made custom transformers, etc thst take the fragile converted analog signal and pass it on.

All while using spectacularly implemented, very nice, but otherwise unremarkable digital conversion.

While the others use exceptional and novel digital conversion (eg especially the Tambaqui) to get similar results.

If Nagra could license the Tambaqui (or similar) tech, stick two of these superior digital front ends into its dual mono design and stunning analog side, it would have something that is the unquestionable market crusher.

But alas.

The FPGA based DAC was first created by Andreas Koch at Playback Designs. Everyone else is following his coattails. Nagra decided to just buy the boards from PBD instead of creating their own, such as PS Audio (Ted Smith). I read somewhere that Ted spent time with Andreas to learn how to do FPGA.

These 2 videos are informative on the history of digital.

E89: Andreas Koch and Digital Recording (youtube.com)

E93: More with Andreas Koch! (youtube.com)

I think doing digital correctly is complicated and I question the credentials of almost every company charging an arm and a leg for their DACs. At least with Andreas I can justify paying for his knowledge.

One reason I bought the Schitt Yggi+ LIM and the OG was because of the long digital history of the designer, Mike Moffat.

I will get one more DAC in the future and that will be either a PBD or Rockna, because of the designers.

BTW - the implementation of the Tambaqui was first done around 2006 by Bruno P. This was for the Makua preamp’s optional DAC module. The Tambaqui was the result of customers asking for an external DAC.

There was in interview on ASR web site were Bruno said this

good stuff @yyzsantabarbara ! Thanks.

What do you know of the new products by Master Fidelity, the Nadac D and Nadac C?  Reviews are over the top.

@fastfreight I have not heard anything about those 2 new DACs. Now I have something to read while I waste time at work.

@yyzsantabarbara 

Very interesting history.  I use FPGA chips (maybe even the same chips; that's how flexible they are) in certain industrial applications related to the oil field. They are great for small scale production because you can use the same chip lots of different ways and (as the "field" part says) alter them for bugs on the fly even after deployment.  Very useful for prototypes, too.  This is why a lot of high end audio people use them -- there are just not that many units being sold, so a custom-designed chip is not practical.

The problem with them, however, is they are general purpose.  It's like a a really good adjustable crescent wrench. It's excellent and can be used for whatever, but just isn't as good as a wrench or ratchet just for that particular bolt.

I'm not joking that I probably use the same exact chipset in a giant rotary directional drill that is used in a nuclear missile, the Nagra HD DAC X, a Lamborghini, and your favorite bespoke DAC.

They are also energy hogs, hot, and (with some exceptions) very electronically noisy.  All that can be compensated for, but can poise problems on implementation, especially in audio equipment.

Anyway, long way of saying, all things being equal, I'd take a custom chipset over a FPGA set, any day -- assuming I have a chip set that fits my bolt, so to speak (which is a giant assumption, as that may not be practical when you make 100 units of something).