Msb dacs why not alot of postings

@arafiq , yes, ASR is a good resource for measurements obviously but measurements are not everything. Hence why these very cheap but excellent measuring dacs like the Topping actually do not sound good.

But we also have to keep in mind that devices like single ended zero feedback amplifiers, or NOS r2r dacs have inherent distortions, harmonic and intermodulation. Its just that, we tend to like those distortions. 

Hey @nitewulf : good posts. Thanks for sharing. I mean it.

I used to own the first version of the Holo Spring DAC. It was Level 3, the KTA version (which is Kitsune Tuned Edition, Kitsune being a small company in California). It was certainly a great DAC for the money. It took me spending more than double that money to beat it. I have owned over a dozen DACs over the years.

Your current DAC is Rockna Wavedream, correct?

@nitewulf Thank you for posting the information, I appreciate it.

@nitewulf

pertaining to the aspect of your post regarding audiophile preferences for point to point wired components versus those that are pcb based... as an analog for a potential preference for discrete r2r dacs using physical resistors vs silicon-based r2r dac chips...

it really isn’t a hard choice... with ’modern’ (even from 15-20 years ago) chipmaking techniques using photolithography, ion doping, physical/chemical vapor deposition and so forth, it is certainly true that silicon-based versions are not only successfully miniaturized, but also made to significantly tighter tolerances than using physical (discrete) resistors ... this is essential for most and least significant bit representations during D/A conversion using the such ladder networks, especially as one moves into calcs beyond 16-18-20 bits to real 24 bit conversions - physical resistors just aren’t precise enough...

so just like small makers of phone and linestages may use kits and point to point wiring (and audiophiles may desire this for romantic reasons), anyone who works at scale and understands proper modern design and manufacturing engineering to meaningful QC and proper tolerances will adopt the more effective and efficient ways to get it done

the fact that r2r chips from the heyday of such as the td1545a, ad1782 or bb pcm63 are not made today is not because they perform worse, it is because of demand for such chips have declined with the advent of low cost DS chips that do the same work for less and incorporate more related functionality like dsp...

Yeah this whole thing took a very negative turn which wasn't my intention and I do regret that.

To @thyname , my current dac is a Metrum Pavane, prior to that I had a Metrum Onyx. I am very partial to Metrum dacs in so far as they just sound really, really good. But like most of us here I suspect, we are always thinking about what's next, what's even better. And unfortunately Metrum doesn't have anything higher end. There is absolutely nothing at all I am missing currently, but my mind wonders regardless.

So the next targets are really Rockna Wavedream Balanced, Chord Dave, Mola Mola Tambaqui, or even the MSB Discrete. But current situation doesn't allow me to go to a dealer and audition these side by side. It was already hard to do that prior to covid. Speaker auditioning is easy, electronics is tougher as single dealers just don't carry that many brands. And I am uncomfortable getting 4 dacs in for home audition knowing I have to send 3 back. Hence dealer auditioning is preferable to me, I know my test tracks well and I know what musical queues I am looking for. But hopefully situation is normalized and I can audition some of these early next year.

 @jjss49 , yes we are on the same page. So these new r2r modules are laser trimmed. They are made very well. And I personally don't have preconceived notions that a integrated r2r chip is worse, as people absolutely adore their old 90s dacs by Theta etc (even in this thread and elsewhere the Tubadour is lauded which is made from Analog Devices chips). Newer r2r dacs are just linear enough for 20+ bits, yielding SNR of 110 dbs, which is basically way beyond what we need. So the peace of mind is there. I have never liked a D-S dac for long, but even then I am highly curious about the Matrix Sabre Pro dac, which is relatively cheap, and measures flawlessly. There's a reason for this, a $300 Matrix mini was the first dac I heard that blew my mind with price/performance ratio. Even back then I knew that tiny, cheap dac was doing something magical. I have heard far more expensive D-S dacs that just didn't sound as good.