'Giant killer' crowd is gone. crickets
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Clarity isn’t a guaranteed recipe for satisfaction. To me, it can’t be all clarity and everything is unimportant. See people, just because something sounds clean and clear doesn’t mean that you’ll sit there for hours. There needs to be a well balanced presentation consisting of: -clarity (as mentioned) -control (never mentioned by Viber) -speed -dynamics -imaging (don’t think Viber mentions) -soundstage width and depth -soul If i say that as long something has pure clarity then i don’t care about the rest of the categories above then I’d be lying. I care about all of the above and have been trying tons of gear to ultimately find something that can at least give me a little of everything mentioned and that isn’t easily found. Did you all get a chance to hear the video from today? (Nobody commented on here). That presentation has a big sound, VERY engaging and clear. That wasn’t just the amps that did that. Don’t think for one second it was simply the amps that are doing all the work. There are $64,000 worth of XLR and speaker cables playing there that you know nothing about and a different preamp too. This is a system and not just an amplifier. Those monos have a tremendous supporting cast. On a different note, 12 days have passed and i have NOT heard a damn thing from anyone who is willing to offer me the opportunity to review their affordable killer amp. NOT ONE. |
Hate to keep correcting you Viber, but you’re wrong again. You said: “ It is clear that Jay’s top criterion is sweet, romantic sound, with enough detail to please him. “ That’s not clear at all. WC never said anything like that. WC never said that ARC gave up anything in clarity to Soulution, only that it apparently sounded much better (“feel like ditching all SS gear”). That’s your assumption that ARC has less clarity with VAC because that’s what you want to be true. It’s possible that the ARC preamp with VAC has nearly equal, equal, or more clarity than the Soulution. We don’t know because WC has not said one way or the other. But even if it doesn’t:What WC absolutely has said is that the ARC preamp with VAC is so amazing he feels like selling all of his solid state gear. So even if the ARC provides slightly less clarity, even still according to WC it is so much better than the (under your assumption of Soulution having better clarity) preamp that in WC’s expert opinion clarity easily overcome by other MORE IMPORTANT sonic factors (otherwise he’d never reach point of saying ARC/VAC so much better he wants to just sell all the SS). Anyway, let’s let WC tell us. Which setup had more pleasing clarity - ARC/VAC or Soulution/VAC. |
kren0006 said, "I predict that Viber will have a hard time dealing with that." Not at all. It is clear that Jay's top criterion is sweet, romantic sound, with enough detail to please him. The XLF provides the detail, and the all tube preamp/amp sweetens the brilliant HF of the XLF. This is excellent synergy for lots of music, but I wonder how Jay will feel when he wants to hear Metallica with the same excitement he gets from fast cars. I predict he will prefer the 725 to the ARC preamp for this particular music. Dguitarnut says that his VAC amp and preamp give a more relaxed presentation than his Gryphon Diablo 300. This correlates with Jay's findings on his VAC Statement 450. My only disappointment was that I mistakenly thought Jay was excited about the clarity of his tube amps compared to lots of SS amps. In reality, he meant the overall romantic sound of the tube amps that SS amps don't possess. Due to all the variables I mentioned, it would be nice if Jay could get the ARC tube amps to directly A/B against the VAC, instead of relying on his memory of the ARC amps, which I think were used only with the other Wilson speakers. I hope he has the opportunity to get or hear the Atma-sphere tube amps which are OTL. These unique designs promise to be the most accurate tube amps around, which compete with SS for clarity and also have the natural, lively sound that tubes try to attain, but which most of them fail because of the warm, forgiving alterations they introduce. In my early days, I was romanced by the seductive sounds of tube preamps and amps. |
I plan to attend if the stars align and work doesn't get in the way. With regards to the Arc ref6se sounding amazing with vac, I think it's the tube synergy and we should not forget that having components that match well together is super important. You can make a Mephisto sound atrocious if you use a cost no object dac and skip a preamp. |
With respect To Jay’s prior post regarding attending capital audio fest. I can assure you that there will be a very good show as there are already 85 exhibitors and there will be probably more adding to the total by the time the show begins on November 2. We have spoken with the show organizer Gary Gill and he will have protocols in place so everybody is safe. We invite everybody who is on this thread to visit us in the atrium in the Frederick Room.I understand that most people would like to spend more time in the exhibits ; That is why GT Audio Works will have an after hours listening session on Saturday night at the show. We will be debuting the new Reference 3 Speakers - All are welcome. Look forward to seeing you all there. |
It is also very informative that the relatively inexpensive Audio Research Ref 6se preamp has beaten the much more expensive Soulution 725 according to your last spontaneous post after just switching from Soulution (“WOW WOW WOW”) I predict that Viber will have a hard time dealing with that. it is pretty rare that WC has that kind of demonstrative reaction to a component switch (Wow x3, don’t think I’ll go to bed tonight). I can only surmise that ARC destroyed Soulution at a fraction of cost. And to think that is only ARC’s mid-tier preamp |
Just watched the video and now we are talking. These, i think i mentioned this before are quite possibly the best amps i have heard period and i'm glad that you have experienced these wonderful amps. I was able to enjoy these amps for several months i'm retired but my wife still works for the studios and i cannot justify the price these command without the guilt. Using several Wilson speakers including the XLF the 8 OHM taps worked the best for me. |
It sounds like you love tube romantic sound, since you refer to the VAC as romantic by itself. So how does it differ from ARC? This may be difficult to answer, since you never used ARC tube amps with the 725 and the other new preamps, maybe not even with the XLF. Too many variables here to say what the specific qualities of VAC are compared to ARC. |
Omg i just removed the 725 Soulution and inserted my arc ref6se... 😳 The arc preamp and vac amps is just WOW WOW WOW... I suspect I'm not going to bed tonight. Will it shock some people if i decided to do an all tube rig and ditch my solid state gear? Because right now, that's what I'm feeling like doing. I'm not finding myself analyzing a damn thing but just letting the music flow. I'm quite impressed |
Oddly enough Vac 200 IQ and Vac Master Preamp is what I use which replaced my Gryphon Diablo 300. It has a more relaxed musical presentation with my Magico S3 Mk2. My dedicated listening room is a very small 11X14 foot space and pretty much limits me in what I can use. I also use a Chord Dave Dac and LUMIN server. Not much desire in upgrading as I think I can only make it sound different and perhaps not better…….. Suncoast Audio (shameless plug) was instrumental in helping me put a system together that sounds good TO ME………without very many costly detours along the way. Mike helped guide me and presented choices without hard sells to achieve my sonic goals thus a big shout out to him. |
Spectral is marketing their concept of the whole system for several reasons. One, the customer who buys their recent products is warned never to buy only individual pieces because such use will blow up the amp and repairs will be prohibitively expensive. So that builds more money in sales. Second, I am not a qualified engineer to debate their rationalizations about megaHz bandwidth and then filtering it with MIT cable. I can tell you that many years ago, I found MIT cable to be quite veiled compared to other audiophile cables, let alone zip for speaker wire, and a few audiophile interconnects. But third, and most practical, is the story I just told about how Spectral sound is NOT the neutral/transparent kind they brag about, but is merely OK, and objectively euphonic compared to my Bryston, as heard by both me and the seller of the Sp amp I was considering. It is still possible that Spectral amps in early stages sound great, but they deteriorate in sound over time, so the guy selling his Sp amp had a mellowed out unit. My experience with an early Spectral DMA-50 amp was it had great speed and clarity in the beginning, but only a few hours later it got soft and mushy. This persisted over a day, so I returned the unit. I experienced the same thing with a Goldmund Mimesis 3 amp, which like that Spectral, was only 2 inches thick and ran extremely hot. I am uncomfortable with extremely hot amps, believing that components change their behavior with extreme heat. The original Mark Levinson ML2, the first famous class A amp, exhibited this sonic deterioration also, but not as quickly as did the Spectral and Goldmund. The S emperor has no clothes. |
Spectral nowadays is really about the whole system. Some people just like their sound - fast, nimble and detailed. I think they sound good but just too much of a commitment. I think they make better preamp than their amps and you don’t have to use MIT on the preamp. I like the fact that they don’t care AT ALL about commercials. Even Benchmark does a lot of commercials on Stereophile/TAS. You never see a single spectral ad. And if you go to their website you would just find that they don’t care about that either… I think they are cool given the fact that they don’t care about promotions at all but can still be alive for these many years. They must do something really in order to survive in this competitive industry. |
Your work will pay off Jay. Once you have a feeling of all ultra end brands, you may want to select a couple of them and start dealing for them because you know their products in and out, like Gryphon. You have already done it by doing the consulting service. I think you can do better than most of the dealers because they just want to sell stuff but not thinking about the synergies, like the Wilson dealer who only gets McIntosh. and I feel you on working hard and spending on audio. I am willing to do the same. I like cars as well but I won’t spend 100k on cars. I would on audio because I just love music so much and would love to stay home and listen to them all day. If I own an McLaren, how many miles can I put on it? 50000 miles and then spend another 100k on it? A 100k audio system can give you satisfaction for decades. |
@dguitarbut: Don’t you find it interesting when i play my system in "raw" or "unfinished" mode so you can then compare my before and after results? THIS IS the reason for the exercise. How are you going to know HOW MUCH better things get if you don’t have a starting point? If i gave you a Lamborghini as your first car and that’s all you ever drove, how can you gauge HOW GOOD it is if that’s all you’ve owned? You have no way to compare to something else. Right now, I’m listening in "unfinished" mode so that when i get my music server I’ll be able to know exactly what changed. That said, I’ve got no issues with people who unsubscribe because i never said i was going to meet everyone’s needs. I got a bunch of people that claim to hate this n that about the channel but i can ASSURE YOU, they STILL watch me or read what I’m saying. WHY?? Because (once again) NOBODY DOES WHAT I DO and as long as I am the only one doing this at this level (there aren’t other channels that zoom in on the ultra high end), I’ll be fine. I mean NO DISRESPECT, but i don’t follow the dudes who have YouTube channels that primarily focus on Hondas and Toyotas. I wanna watch the YouTube channels that show the Calvo motorsports vipers, McLaren 720s, twin turbo lambos, etc etc and guess what? I cant afford any of those cars but does that mean i shouldn’t watch it because I’ll never own one? Nah... I still enjoy every minute of it. I always want to look at what’s ahead of me and not what’s in my rearview. If life forces me to go down with regards to electronics then I’ll deal with it and be ok with it because i came from "the gutter" with regards to electronics. It won’t be in unfamiliar territory in any way, shape or form. My vision is to keep pushing HARD and maybe in the next 2 years I’d have the XVX or something like that but BELIEVE ME it is HARD WORK to get there. It hasn’t been a walk in the park for me to get here. I don’t have a Middle Eastern Prince relative that sends me money to play. I gotta grab the shovel every damn day and dig deep, sweat, and not complain. I’m not trying to give life lessons here but if there is one thing i can share here is that NONE IT, ABSOLUTELY NONE of the stuff you see here has been given to me. I just work my ass off and if I’m not getting where i feel i should be, then i immediately find something else to do to help me get there. When i got a taste of the ultra high end for the first time, i was hooked and i worked two jobs and did whatever side gigs i could do to earn more money so i can buy what i wanted. I've NEVER BEEN the dude that is happy working 40hrs a week and take my paycheck home and be content if i was able to have money leftover to buy cigarettes (i don't smoke). I'm thinking of heading out to capital fest and shoot videos for my channel even in the middle of this pandemic. Why? Because i see opportunity for content and to give you all footage of what many won't be able to see. I'm wired different i guess. |
Jay So then why this exercise in futility? Why bother if one of the building cornerstones (music server)is faulty or not optimal? There are no valid correlations to be drawn. You are just trying to milk the system for u tube traffic with a no reveal. I unsubscribed months ago because it became just a waste of time for a tidbit of info. |
Jay, I wish you could do an A/B shootout of the Constellation with the new tube monos. You said the Connie is a little sweet but still detailed. I'd be curious if the tube amps are faster/more detailed and more neutral than the Connie. That would make headlines--a tube amp that breaks the mold of most tube amps which are warm/euphonic, and also beats the SS amps at what they are trying to do by being neutral/accurate. But perhaps your favorite SS amps have all been with warm coatings, so the real test would be how the tube amp does against the neutral/detailed Benchmark AHB2, which I hope yyzsantabarbara sends you. |
Logydoghan, Funny anecdote about Spectral. A few years ago, someone had an older Spectral amp that didn't require an entire Spectral preamp and the MIT cables. I was a serious customer because I have owned very early Sp preamps and amps and worshipped at the Sp altar. I took my Bryston 2.5B SST2 to A/B with his Sp amp. Since I didn't know his system, I asked him to tell me what he thought first. He listened mainly to rock/pop. He actually liked my Bryston more than his Sp, because it gave more snap/sparkle to his music. We had the same taste even though we listen to different music. He said honestly, "don't buy my Sp." A typical seller/dealer would have trashed my Bryston in favor of what he wanted to sell. |
“That said, it seems that you all want to see eye candy instead?” I’d say it’s more that it is kinda impossible to learn anything of use if we don’t know what’s playing, and frankly I (speaking just for myself) don’t have much interest in listening to a setup that is blind. If I devote 15 minutes of my time to watching a video i want to know what’s playing, otherwise I’ll probably just skip it and not bother. Personal preference. Maybe some people like it, dunno. What I care about is hearing new stuff and comparing against previous stuff. I used to get into the guessing predicting game but kinda fell off that horse too |
ron17, I pretty much agree with what you said about WC. I think it's important though to point out that WC's ratings of amps - top tier, middle, bottom, etc utilize multiple criteria. Pass Labs, for example is in the middle and not top tier, because in addition to sonics, WC takes into consideration the form factor, the heat, the time to warm up, and the lack of new technology - all hits against Pass Labs. If WC based the ratings upon sonics only, then the Xs300's would be in the top tier based upon the logic that he prefers the sound quality of the Xs300's over another top tier amp. It would be interesting if WC decided to also provide ratings based upon sonics only - some folks might like to know that. Using Pass Labs as an example, the overall placement for the brand is "middle", but for sonics only, the Xs300's placement is "top tier". For myself though, I'm glad that WC has all of that criteria and is sharing all of that information - it's invaluable and much appreciated. Dave |
Got it. I get your point. That said, it seems that you all want to see eye candy instead? 😂 I plan to show one of the 2 sets of monos soon. The constellation monos will be up for sale this weekend since i will no longer make them part of the rotation of amps. I plan to have one set of solid state monos and maybe one set of tube amps. |
“You barking orders?” Nope, just answering your question as to why nobody noticed you were keeping amps longer. How could anyone notice when you haven’t even shown us what you’ve had? For all we know there could have been ten rounds of turnover since you last showed an amp. Add to that your statements that you been testing amps in private behind the scenes. So do whatever, but don’t expect people to know you’ve held amps longer when everything is behind a curtain. I’m not complaining too much, well a little, but yeah feels like a long wait. That’s all |
The best I have heard are their 2kw mono blocks and their C53 preamp. Granted I haven’t heard their new 901 model. They are not bad. But they can’t be compared to the Gryphon, Dan Dagostino, Spectral or sim audio. And again they are not that expensive to some of the brands mentioned above. They are good products but to claim legendary performance they need to do better than that. And I am talking about the solid state. They may do better in tubes but I haven’t owned many tube amps so can’t comment on that. But I do heard people prefer Audio Research than theirs. |
logydoghan ... Really looking forward to seeing the worst of the amps, especially those charge for big $$$ and pretends to be hifi. I would guess McIntosh being one of them ...Really? I’ve heard some fantastic Mac amplifiers. They don’t happen to be to my taste, but I sure don’t think they are pretenders to hi-fi. Which Mac models have you heard that led you to this guess, @logydoghan? Hopefully you've heard them in person rather than just relying on YouTube. |
Gee.. why can’t we just being decent and say: Jay, would love to know what are those tube amps! But saying something utterly ironic and unnecessary. Why do you think being hostile will make people do things you want? Really looking forward to seeing the worst of the amps, especially those charge for big $$$ and pretends to be hifi. I would guess McIntosh being one of them, but they don’t actually charge a huge amount comparing to a lot of other brands. Mark Levinson still charges a lot for their high-end tier. same goes for the speakers. I heard Avalon and Rockport the other day and found them sound good but always missing something that the Wilson’s actually delivers. But this is just my opinion. |
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Instead of addressing the issue, you go on the defensive.....by getting offensive. Also juvenile. Who’s barking orders now? I love you....You are beautiful....so is everyone. Have a great every second.....it is free! Why do you do the teasing game?......please tell us......What do you and everyone else think of my suggestion? |
@ricevs: When are you starting your own YouTube channel and do your video of tweaks and giant killers in the format you described i should follow above? Hell, I’ll subscribe to your channel if you do. This would give you less time to spend on this thread because the YouTube channel will keep you busy as hell shooting and editing content. Why not try that and let me know how it works out for you? Maybe that will help your finances since you'll have a way to market your tweaks? You'll make about $190 dollars a month from YouTube by loading 3 videos a week and editing about 4-5 hours a week. Try it - who knows. |
Jay is probably doing the "secret teasing dance" for financial reasons (keep everyone coming back for more and getting more hits). Seems really ridiculous to me. I would tell everyone ASAP what I have....not tease them for weeks or months. I think you could build more excitement by telling us even before the components arrive what you are doing....."I just ordered this pair of mono blocks....they should be here in 3 weeks....cannot wait to see how good they are......stay tuned" Then when they arrive make a big fanfare......then burn them in for a little while and then show them in all their glory......then burn them in some more..... then try different cables and equipment to get the best sound. The teasing game seems juvenile. Woof woof......he he. Jay will do what he wants, that is for sure. |
