New vs. old DACs - opinions?


I'm on the market for a new DAC. I've noticed that you can find used DACs from, say, 8 years ago that are heavily marked down from their original price. I just saw one sell for $400 that was originally $1500, for example.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the progression of DACs seems very different from that of amps... an old amp, like McIntosh, is still highly competitive today... but it seems that newer DACs are more evolved, refined, and use higher quality parts for less money, right?

Another thought is - before DACs were as widely used as they are today, perhaps the mark-up was much greater in the past...? Where-as now, with the influx of foreign manufactured DACs, there is a healthy bit of competition that keeps prices down by limiting the manufacturer mark-up. Correct me if I'm off here as well.

So, overall I'm wondering if I would be better off buying something new like a Keces or MHDT DAC or finding something older that is heavily marked down.
djembeplay
Kijanki, I'm right there with you on opamps being so much improved . . . thinking back to the "bad old days" of slow all-NPN types like the 741 just about makes my stomach churn. And I'm pretty amazed about the quality of diverse types of devices - i.e. high-quality JFETS and complimentary bipolars sharing the same wafer? Something we wouldn't have thought possible a few decades ago.

But an opamp example that would fit the example I gave above (for DACs) are those modern CMOS devices with an onboard DAC for trimming? Yes, their offset specs are impressive, especially so for inexpensive devices . . . but they're irrevelant for perfectionist audio. Ditto for rail-to-rail input and output capability, ultra-low quescient current, and single-supply "precision" operation.

Fortunately, in the world of opamps, it does seem that the bouquet of ultra-high-quality products available is more extensive than ever . . . but the fact that the attributes of most concern to most IC manufacturers (or at least the ones they spill the most ink over) aren't ones that matter most to high-end audio . . . is worth taking notice of.
Kirkus - You said it right. It is very sad that we don't represent any buying power.
Just bought a ARC DAC5 back from 1995. I've had all sorts of newer DACs including a PS Audio nuwave, the NAD M51 and many others. This old ARC absolutely kills the newer ones. So rich sounding and 3D. I'm hearing layers in songs I've never heard before. I had to buy a USB to SPDIF converter to use my Mac Mini with it since the old ARC doesn't have USB. I'm done playing around with newer DACs. 
With so many quality USB/SPDIF converters on the used market, there are many options for taking advantage of older DACs. Many have far better power supplies and analog output staged than many of the newer ones, especially at the lower price points that the older DACs can be had for. Like with newer ones, the older ones sound different from each other so system matching remains important. 

Old D/A chips have the advantage of using ladder and NOS technology, but the disadvantage of not supporting hi-res and not dealing with HF transients very well.  They can sound very musical, but not quite live from top to bottom IMO.

New D/A chips are much faster and support hi-res, but they are more difficult to deliver power to.  The designer must have a very good bag of tricks to make them sing.  The issues are: power supply, decoupling, ground-planes, wiring, and most important: regulation.  Implementation is everything in a DAC.  Its not just about selecting the right D/A chip and doing a design with it.  The thing that sets most audiophile electronics apart from mid-fi is excellent power delivery.  Read lots of professional reviews and try to make a choice using these.  I personally trust Audiostream and usually 6-moons among others.


Steve N.

Empirical Audio