Nirvana pressings

Hmmm.

Not sure exactly what you mean. I think i might know what you mean but...Can you be more specific?

Its natural for bands to second guess the final product but you have to go with something and trust its for the best.

Do i think nevermind is too polite or too polished or too commercial? The way i answer that is to ask myself do i like the sound of the album or not?

I have to say i do! I think its best that some of the rawness was polished out to make for a more cohesive sound. If it was left more raw I dont think it would have that sonic quality to make it a timeless classic.

I think it was a huge mistake for cobain or any of the band members to get hung up on this or for them to think they compromised to the 'establishment' or whatever.

Their artistry is their in spades and the mixing or mastering cant take that away from them.

If cobain did get hung up on it, it just shows that he was an idealist and young and if he didnt take his life but got past his issues he would have realized that he created something that transcends genere's or petty arguments about mixing or mastering. That record he made goes way beyond that. The only thing he should take away from that record is pride! Not guilt or shame. Pride.

It's really not that suprising the band was ultimately unhappy(to a certain degree) with the final product. There's a pretty telling video on YouTube that has Butch Vig talking about how he got Cobain to do certain things that he really didn't want to do during the recording sessions. In some instances he had to be down right mendacious to achieve the sound he thought Nevermind should have. If that doesn't qualify as over production I don't know what would.

I think that is what motivated them to get Steve Albini for In Utero. Of course their admiration for his band Big Black and his recording of The Pixies' Surfer Rosa amongst many other recordings was probably motivation as well though.

So they went with albini on the next album. Albini would not even take a royalty! but rather took a flat rate fee for his work. I think that is pretty amazing! especially in lieu of the massive success of their previous album! He must have known how much less money he was going to make. That is someone really sticking to what he believes in and not selling out his beliefs for the almighty dollar. I'm very impressed.

I respect that but in my opinion i have to respectfully disagree with him as to the role a producer has in the collaboration in the making of a record.

I see the studio as a 'instrument'. When you play any record you are in fact hearing that instrument being used. It has a significant effect on the final sound of a record. The producers role i think is to take a band bring a vision of the record and bring that into being.

His job is to aid, abed and yes sometimes push the band. Sometimes producers and bands have heated disagreements about the direction a producer is taking the record in. Daniel lanois, bob dylan and 'time out of mind' come to mind. There were some heated discussions between lanois and dylan out in the parking lot about the recording of that album! If you listen to that record...you hear lanois's fingerprints all over that album but...that is a great dylan album. 'Not dark yet' from that album happens to be one of my all time favorite dylan songs. It is brilliant and has a wonderful 'sound'. That track is a wondeful collaboration of two genius's in their own field of talent.

From what i gleaned off the internet, apparently on 'nevermind' the producer would 'trick' cobain to make another take on vocals because that was the only way he could get him to 'double' some of the vocals.

I see THAT as the producer exercising his experience and vision about what works and what doesnt. Its not a sin to have a vision for a record.

Was cobain difficult to work with because he was a user? I know users can be more irritable than they normally would be if they werent. Making a second or third take probably seemed like an irritating task to him? He had to trick him to get it. But all the producer i think was trying to do is work and carry out his vision of making what he perceives to be a great sound.

Nirvana are not producers. I dont think i would like to hear a record they produced all by themselves.

I would venture to say that every produced record is the producers take on what the record is about in sonic terms.

In response to nevermind they went with albini. Was cobain now satisfied? Would a producer who 'got out of the way' make them happy? Did they like what he created?

No.

It is said they initially were happy but when cobain brought it home and listened he felt something was missing.

I have listened to the albini mix off you tube and it is a different alternate perspective on the songs. I found it a 'pleasure' to listen to in that it was nirvana! and it was a different interpretation of the same songs i got to know differently. All the songs do in fact sound like the producer has gotten out of the way but to me the albini mix doesnt point the album in any direction. The songs to me sound like they lack focus and at some level fall a bit flat, like they dont get their point across clearly.

I prefer the polished version of the album. It is still raw and angry and explosive and hard and...it sounds ...complete and ....whole!

So, producers and the studio are very important tools i think, i would say they play an extremely important role and the contributions of a talented producer are priceless. They do deserve a royalty since in one sense they are carrying out their own artistic vision of what the record is about but within the context of the life the songs themselves have.

They hear the potential of the song and try to let that potential flourish?

How bout the analogy of a diamond cutter? He takes the raw stone and releases its inherent brilliance and beauty!

I wonder if i'll like how the original pressings sound? I find the simply vinyl pretty good but maybe a bit prettied up. I dont want a Nirvana record that is 'pop' but i dont want one that doesnt 'say anything' either. Somewhere between those two extremes will be nice.

I pulled the Albini snippet below from Wikipedia so take it however you want to. I think it gives a pretty clear idea of Albini's recording philosophy and might point towards why Nirvana used him after the Nevermind recording experience if they were in fact unhappy with it. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with any of Nirvana's recordings and enjoy them all because after all they are great records and the music is excellent. I was fortunate enough to see them during the In Utero tour a few months before he did himself in.

"In Albini's opinion, putting producers in charge of recording sessions often destroys records, while the role of the recording engineer is to solve problems in capturing the sound of the musicians, not to threaten the artists' control over their product. In 2004, Albini summarized his opinions regarding record producers: "It always offended me when I was in the studio and the engineer or the assumed producer for the session would start bossing the band around. That always seemed like a horrible insult to me. The band was paying money for the privilege of being in a recording studio, and normally when you pay for something, you get to say how it's done. So, I made up my mind when I started engineering professionally that I wasn't going to behave like that." (Young, 2004)."