No one actually knows how to lculate what speaker cable they need

b4icu,

Sorry for the late response on the sound impression of the DIY 4AWG extra flexible welding copper cables USA bought from Amazon. This cable is less than USD1.5/foot plus shipping. How to post the photos?

According to our amplifier damping factor, you have calculated that we need 4AWG cable, 2 M length for our system. My friends, SAM, JOHN and myself would like to thank you for your selfless help to us and the hifi community which could save us a lot money if we had known you earlier.

Below is SAM’s DIY cables sound impression.

My room is quite big so I have an issue of insufficient bass.  I recently added a pair of Rel 212se to pair with my Wilson Alexia driven by Passlabs 350.8 and I thought that it has made my day.  I have top to bottom and the music flowed v nicely with the Kharma Grand Ref speaker cables. The 1st impression upon installation of the DIY cables was wow 😮 it sounded very musical.  While the music sound sweet with Kharma, the DIY cables sounded more realistic.  Soundstage was equally wide and the overall music have more drive.  Bass notes were drier and has better separation / weight.  As lack of good bass was my issue, I was pleasant surprised.  The high extension seems to have lessen and sounded less sparkle, but sufficient and overall adequate.  The mids and vocals seems to have taken to be more backward staging.  Therefore the presence of the mids is where it is weak in.  Overall, this set up sings and I feel that the flow of music is more realistic and enjoyable and the Kharma is now in the box.

Below is JOHN’s DIY cables sound impression.

I have been chasing for a better hifi system all the time. I have gone through numerous changes of preamps, amps, turntables/cartridges, phone amps, CD transports, DAC, interconnect cables and speaker cables over the many years in this hobby.

My present amps are Pass Labs 160.8 mono blocks ( damping factor 200) driving Magico Q5 speakers with Ansuz Speakz C2 speaker cables. My 1st impression after installing the DIY 4AWG 2 meters length cables was the system sounded very pleasant and musical. Bass response was enhance and tighter and I noticed more excursion on the woofers motion.    The soundstage was equally wide but with more body presentation. The high is a notch less which is good as it is less edgy especially on vocal. I am very happy with the new DIY cables that I decided to retired the Ansuz in the box.

Below is my DIY cables sound impression.

My interest in hifi date back to late 60s with Dual system. Bought JBL4315 speakers and Harman Kardon Citation 16 pre and power in 1970. I still have the Harman Kardon power amp in mint condition. Like John, I have gone through numerous changes in both equipments and cables in my hifi system over the years, trying to chase after that dream system. 

Now I am using 4 Telos 600 mono blocks bi-amp to the Kharma Exquisite Ref 1 E Signature speakers with 2 pairs of Kharma Enigma Signature Loudspeaker cables for the last 10 years. My 1st impression of the DIY cables which cost less than USD100 was overwhelming. It sounded musical and not bright to the point of edginess especially on female vocal when I play loud to around 90dB region. Soundstage is wide with overall presentation very dynamic and full. Lost a wee notch on the sustain on the treble resulting in quicker decay of the high notes or less sparkle. However with the diamond tweeters of the Kharma, the extension of high is still more than adequate. 

The best takeaway for me on the DIY cable is no edginess of vocal (hurting my ears) when I play loud. Like my friends, I retired the Kharma cables in the box which I have been using the last 10 years. I may try to parallel the Kharma with the DIY cables after spending some extended time with the DIY cables.

b4icu, if you need any info or photos, kindly let me know. How may we contact you in the future when we change our amplifier with different damping factor. Thanks and Shalom.

Mr. khiak

Thanks. What a post to start my weekend with…Please be kind to thank in person your dear friends: Sam and John. Posts like yours are the best reword to my effort to bring this subject to your attention. It really makes me happy.

Some comments on the sound impression.

I assume that the DIY cables got the lows to sound more realistic. The Wilson Alexia driven by Passlabs 350.8 dont need a pair of Rel 212se to get the bottom lows alive! The note that the DIY cable brought in the bass (detailed and tight) shows that the AWG of the DIY cable was way more "right" than the previous Kharma. When you emphasize one band (the low band in Sam's case) the other bands might seem to have less. Often happens when a speaker is positioned wrong and has too much bouncing bass from a wall or a corner. Not as it is really has less highs. As Sam's impression is: "The high extension seems to have lessen and sounded less sparkle, but sufficient and overall adequate". Just the Fr. Response is more realistic (flat). What you describe as sweet, is like having more of a tube sound: poor DF. A poor cable can do that to a fantastic SS high DF amp. Some do like more the "Sweet sound". However, the realistic is better to my opinion. I see to yours too.

Same impression is repeated by you, just to give those words more weight.

In overall, the #4 AWG DIY (calculated) cables got your Amp's into full control (using most of the Amp's DF figure in use). It is another proof that science prevails over none science methods. It also increases statistics, to get the result more accurate and firm. By your testimony and the spirit of your words (all six), it shows that a small try of the idea offered for free, goes a long way when it land in your room and plays the music.

Could you please say:

a.       What was the length and gauge of the Kharma and Ansuz (the once replaced by your new DIY cables)?

b.     How much did they cost?

c.       Could you get some pictures of your cables (mainly of the endings).

Thanks.

I'm here for now. If I move, I'll leave a trail to keep helping those who may ask. Thanks again for the sharing.

Here is a link to the updated excel table: https://imgur.com/a/tgGNIvB

b4icu,
a). All our high-end cables are 2 metres in length with no spec on the gauge or size of the cables.
b).  SAM’s Kharma retail price USD8000 for 2M pair.
       JOHN’s Ansuz Speakz C2 retail price USD8400 for 2M pair.
        KHIAK ‘s Kharma retail price USD17000 for 2M pair.
c)     I have pictures but do not know how to post it. 

b4icu,
I do not have the imgur software, please update the spreadsheet on our behalf. Thanks 

Mr. khiak

Thanks.

1. The imgur software:

Click this: https://imgur.com/a/9IPINRA (the updated spreadsheet is there).

Click the green box on left top of the screen that say: New post.

On the window that opens, drag a picture. It will upload to the site.

On the right top of the screen, an HTTP address line is created, next to the button: Copy.

Copy it to your post.

Every time someone clicks it here, a new window will open and your uploaded picture will show up. Repeat the process for more pictures.

2. The prices on the old cables (that been replaced by the DIY) are very high. It’s sum is over $30,000.- were replaced by $300.-!!!

I assume that a US $8,000.- US $8,400.- and US $17,000.- are what some industry representatives here used to call Hi-end speaker cables. Call it whatever you like…I call it robbing $30,000.- from people, by taking advantage of their innocent desire to get a better sound out of their system.

This revelation of yours (impression vs. cable value) is exactly what my claim was.

Reading their adv. On site: https://audiofederation.com/brands/kharma/kharma-price-list

And https://blinkhighend.com/shop/cables/ansuz-speakz-speaker-cables/

No technical data at all! Some mambo jumbo on technology, some "purity" crap, "one-material conductor-termination-circuit" superiority (?) and a staggering price.

Calculations: None

Fit to customer requirements: None

Technical data for a skilled audiophile to pick the right one: None

Results: 

Over $30,000.- of cost to be beaten by some understanding (in electronics) and $300.- of materials cost.