Ohm Speakers, thoughts?


I have long dismissed Ohm speakers as anything that could be competitive in todays state of the art. But of course I want to believe that this "old" American company still has some horsepower left to compete with asian built speakers built by people that take in less money in a week than my dog sitter takes in the couple hours it takes to let my dogs out to crap when I am away for a day :)? The reviews I have read here and there report incredible imaging but what about other aspects of the Ohm 5 II. Any thoughts?
nanderson
Wow! You guys have been busy, LOL. I go away with the flu for about 5 days and the post has gone crazy. Heheheh.

Anyway, barely feeling alive, but will chime in..

Answers to some of the questions previously asked...Regarding my versions and rebuilds...

Freq response is down to 30 Hz, actually lower, but conservatively rated. Free air is at 25 Hz.
High end is extended to above 20KHz.
Nominal impedance is 6 ohms.
VC's will handle 150 watts RMS at 300 Deg. C.

I do not recommend them for levels sustained above 96 db with HEAVY base passages, without heavy base they will do 98 to 100 easily. This is at 12 feet from the speakers! I find them to be plenty loud. This level I attain using less than 10 watts. These speakers have an Xmax of about 10 to 12 mm. Exceeding this will damge them as with any driver blown beyond its limits.

The original drivers were not truly designed as underhung motor assemblies and some were pre-loaded. The weight of the cone and the sloppy spider caused the VC to hang out of the magnetic gap and seriously reduced the efficiency of the speaker and its capabilities. Proper underhung design and a few tricks to deal with the weight have changed this problem and now the speakers get quite loud with minimal inputs. They do sound best however when driven with amps capable of considerable dynamic headroom.

I would recommend a room of at least 300 sq. ft. for the TLS-I and 500 sq. ft. or more for the TLS-II.

I do not recommend less than 100 watts per channel TUBE or 300 watts SS for the TLS-I and much more for the TLS-II. (Or the F's or the A's) They do not need it to voice or even sound good, but the dynamic head room works wonders. They just open up.

The best room placements I have found seems to be about 8 feet from center to center of the cones and at least 3.5 feet away from the rear wall and 3 feet from the corners. Corner bass traps and rear wall reflection control works well. Placing a flat screen TV on the wall or between them may cause some issues, or degrade sound.

The soundstage depth can be controlled somewhat by the closeness to the rear wall.

BTW, John Strohbeen is not the original designer of the A's or the F's. Lincoln Walsh discovered the concept and the founder of Ohm Acoustics, Marty Gerstin designed the A's with Walsh's help. The firt "A" was released in 1971 just after Lincoln Walsh passed away. Sadly, He never got to see or hear his creation. Marty Gerstin, then went on further refine the A's and to develope the "F", relesed in 1972, as a little brother to the "A". Again, further refining the concepts gained from the originals. The "F" was smaller and easier to drive, but did not have the full sonic merits of the "A's" which had and have no comparrison.

Though the cones were 3 times as heavy and they were very power hungry, they could produce bass that would involuntarily relieve a person as well as cause some damages to home objects. Yet they had a very delicate and nuanced high end. The later coment was not necessisarilly documented by Ohm, but was experienced by others and myself in the early years.

Marty is also responsible for designing the unsual and special voice coils that made the "A" and "F" possible. This concept was pattented as well.

John Stohbeen, the former owner of Tech Hi-Fi aquired Ohm Acoustics from Marty between 76 and 78. Through some of Johns efforts, the "F" was redesigned and or went through changes, until it was retired in 84. John then came up with and patented the idea now embodying the current Ohm products.

The most unfortunate problem now plaguing most people is that there have not been any of these speakers remaing in pristine condition or properly rebuilt from which to compare current product or the originals. The others whom have actually heard the originals are relying on fading memories, as these are 30 to 35 years ago.

Even I can't remeber those experiences, except to say that the original "A" and "F" set me on this path and BLEW me away forever.

Refurbished and upgraded F's start at $6K, ...A's at $13.5K
New TLS-I @ $8K.....New TLS-II @ 15K

Good listening to all,
Dale.
Dale,

Thanks again for the great info,

Allowing for our fading memories, 8-)
how would you compare the sound of the new speakers to the originals?

Although your setup is well outside my budget, I look forward to hearing the feedback from those who can swing it.

This does give some weight to the idea that John Strohbeen had the goal of producing as much "Walsh-like" sound as possible at a lower price-point, with a max price of 6K new and much less for those upgrading. I guess I'm fortunate that this is exactly what I needed.

I hope you are feeling better soon, and best of luck with your new designs. If I lived near you, I would definitely go for a listen.
Dale,

Thanks so much for the info! it all sounds right to me!

I'm also hoping that your project, which is obviously the result of a knowledgeable guy with a passion who is on to something, receives much more attention down the road. I would love to hear your creations.

If you are ever in the Washington/Baltimore corridor area with your creations, I'll volunteer right now to help get them set up and give them a listen!
MWr0707,

I bet your FRS-11's are not on castors. If so, maybe consider putting them on castors in order toenable you to reposition the speakers easily if desired for optimal listening at a particular room location, if the speakers cannot reside there normally due to room constraints.

I did this with my old Walsh 2s, which were not on castors. THe F5s are.

If you are comfortable with a battery powered screwdriver and drill, it may not be very hard to do with stock castors that you can pick up at Home Depot or euquivalent. As long as the speakers sit squarely on the castors, there is no practical sonic affect from doing this due to the vertical firing nature of the driver.

If you do not like it for any reason, the casters can be unscrewed from the bottom and removed.

Or, maybe John at Ohm can provide a set of the nice heavy duty locking castors they use and provide guidance on installing them.

Just an idea to help provide some flexibility if needed in your room.
Thanks for the compliments and encouragement. I truly appreciate it. I extend an open invitation to anyone whom wishes to make the journey to my shop and home for demo's and tours.

Regarding the last comment on the castors... I have found that the single greatest improvement that I could render to these speakers (night and day improvement) was redesigning the base and adding the very high quality metal cones. Coupling these to the floor cleaned up the entire sound accross the board. Perhaps you can try it with the other products.

Parts Express sellls some very good quality cones from Dayton Audio and very attractive as well. These will keep you in budget. I would recomend the heaviest cones that run about $20 for a set of 4. Believe me, it is the best $50 you will ever invest.

For those whom may be interested, I presently use:
Conrad Johnson preamps, mono block tube amps, Jolida JD 100A CD transport, A Luxman turntable with Premier MMT fiber arm and varous styli. I employ dedicated 30 amp lines with their own power conditioner and ground system, silver interconnects of my own design and various speaker cables, such as 4TC, 8TC and siver, some of my design too.

I have aslo successfully employed some of Carvers magnetic field amps in place of SS amps to power my creations.

Great listening.
Dale.
dale@hhr-lasers.com