2. cables
  3. 132249-75518

Opening a can of worms

Here is the can filled with opinions. It's been hashed and rehashed to infinity and beyond with no clear result. Since I am a seeker of truth I'll post my thoughts here for the yea and naysayers to debate over. Question is: Are expensive speaker or any other cable in a system worth the exorbitant cost over a reasonably priced cable loom? I thought I'd  experiment myself to find out. My comparison is between Transparent Ultra cable loom and Blue Jeans cable loom on a pure stereo system comprised of Proceed PAV,  Proceed PDSD,  Krell Kav 250, Musical Fidelity A3cd, Sony Ps4300 TT and B&W 803D2 speakers. All sources were used by this experiment using identical playback material. Cables had in excess of 200 hrs burn time and all were identical in lenght. The only variation were the connector manufacturers.
One change that occurred during this 4 week long endeavor was that I'm firmly seated on the sharpest picket on the fence.
My result is that I'm now a believer that there are audible differences in cables. I also believe that these differences are minute and one has to really listen carefully and for a long time to discern these differences.
Now to the crutch of the matter, $$$$$, As we all know Transparent Cables would reside in the upper tier of Audio Cable expense.  Blue Jeans Cable on the other hand falls into the lowest tier of expense (well maybe not lowest but low nontheless )
One would think then that the Transparent would be far superior to the BJs. Not really! Yes the highs were a little cleaner, mids a little tighter and lows a tad more pronounced but not by as much as one would expect. Soundstage was somewhat more open and airy and depth was somewhat more defined with the higher priced cable but again less than one would expect. 

Now for my personal opinion regarding the cable debate: expensive cable looms are slightly better than reasonable priced looms, if a dollar equals a penny to you then by all means opt for the higher priced loom, if a penny equals a penny don't be ashamed for opting for the best you can do. The differences are so minute that it's not worth going into debt over. BOTH looms sounded superb on my test system and I would be happy with either loom.

Now let the debate begin, just know I'm a fence sitter and not in one camp or the other
128x128gillatgh
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

kosst_amojan
@lalitk
Are you blind or just stupid? Here’s exactly what I posted just 2 hours ago...

"Just so we’re clear, cables do sound very, very slightly different, they do NOT burn in, and you CAN measure them. Anyone saying different is just lying, scamming, or nuts."

How exactly do you get "they make no difference" out of that rather declarative statement?
My end game is to dispell the snake oil and myths a click of you are obsessed with bringing to the table. I’m here to demand you prove your silly claims with more evidence than "I hear it".

>>>>>To be fair there is - for all intents and purposes - no real difference between the language, "very very slight difference" and "no difference" in the sound. The naysayers say there are no differences OR the differences are too small to matter. You are obviously in the naysayer camp so why all the wiggling and angst? The proponents say the differences are not subtle or are quite large. You were obviously just trying to CYA. Your fake outrage is also transparent, as usual. Obvious one can measure some things, like resistance, and maybe channel separation and SNR, but not emotion, or musicality or soundstage height, things of that nature. Try to keep up with the discussion.
dynaquest4's avatar
dynaquest4
445 posts
 

I agree with gilatgh...this particular thread has gotten sorta boring, useless and off topic (for the most part).  This will likely be my last as I get too many emails anyway and, unlike some here, I have other personal interests.

I think "our" point is there is no true science in exotic cables and wires.  I've never seen anywhere where a manufacturer or cable designer actually designs a cable product to "fix" an issue that is not already taken care of with good quality basic connects.  "We" believe it it mostly about showmanship and having cable "accessories" that look cool, beefy and cost more so they visually mate well with cool, beefy high-end components.

A smart guy once said: "When confronted with the truth, believers do not want to hear about it. They want to remain in the magical world of fantasy where they think they can hear improvements in their wire, often arrived at by making listening tests without adequate controls or understanding of the problems involved including speaker impedance and amplifier stability. One of the prime tools in creating such a faith for the average consumer is by capitalizing on fear and ignorance as in many other things that aren’t readily apparent. There is fear that the wire currently in use is not good enough. There is ignorance because most people do not have scientific knowledge in this area and lack adequate measuring equipment to prove otherwise."

So....saying you think it "sounds better" might please your ears and justify your expense, but it will never be a good enough reason to qualify as an adequate argument.


geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
dynaquest4 wrote,

"A smart guy once said: "When confronted with the truth, believers do not want to hear about it. They want to remain in the magical world of fantasy where they think they can hear improvements in their wire...."

An even smarter guy once said, "When confronted with the truth, non-believers do not want to hear about it. They want to remain in the magical world of fantasy where they think they cannot hear improvements in their wire..."

We call that the Backfire Effect.

lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,434 posts
 
We have already entered the age of wireless audio and about to see the advent of high end floor standing wireless speakers. That should render ‘cable matters’ debate moot but I have no doubts that naysayers will find something else to dissect and criticize.  

Speaking of wireless speakers, look out for Aurender line up of High Fidelity Wireless battery-powered active speakers next year. I heard the mini monitor version at RMAF 2017 and they had a very nice sound and cool form factor. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Hush your mouth! The cable debate has been going on since around 1980. Maybe longer. And it’s not about to stop now. It has legs, Baby! Witness all the cable threads. The debate whether no cables at all is better than any cables is just a subset of the cable debate. I don’t use cables and I don’t use fuses or power cords. Alas! Am I not part of the debate, too!? I can certainly imagine there will be debates about what kind of wireless is the best. See, we’re in luck! The cable debate is not going to end any time soon. Horray!
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