In tests done by Townshend and others, the effect of adding more seismic sinks was cumlative. So if there was a 10 db reduction in outside noise with one, there was a 20 db reduction with two, etc. this only works in the lower ranges. Townshend did offer multiple layer sinks. I can tell you that my Rock 3 had a very quite background and very tuneful bass that I attribute to the built in seismic sink as well as the tonearm trough.
Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper
I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
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- 53 posts total
Dougdeacon, thanks for the advice on VTF. You forced me to re-check it...and to my surprise, the rubber o-rings I had used to fine-tune the VTF had rotted and failed! Furthermore, I had always been told to use near the max tracking force tolerated. So in sum, I was way off. I also recently read to use the largest counterweight pushed all the way forward, and the next largest possible pushed as far forward as possible. I realized I was using the next size down, so I switched and re-adjusted. I'm not sure I have tweaked it maximally yet, but there's already a dramatic improvement! Thanks again. Now on to the other tweaks... |
Ptmconsulting is spot on w/r to the benefit of replacing the stock VPI elastic belt with thread drive. An intermediate flywheel will further improve speed stability by enabling a more grippy wrap of thread around a larger circumference of the motor and flywheel pulleys. The flywheel will also provide a noise break between the motor and the platter. You were correct to discard the three pulley system. |
12-09-11: Ctlphd I wouldn't say it was dramatic but I thought it a very worthwhile improvement at the time (over my original motor setup - HERE). Howver, for a similar outlay, you may get a better result with the rim drive option - but I haven't heard that. In regards to isolation of the motor - you'll need to experiment with this. When I coupled my old TNT motor with solid cones to the same wooden plinth as the table there was a large transference of motor vibration to the table (via the plinth). The rubber feet were much better. Though I now use the quieter motor/flywheel with split motor/table plinths - where both plinths are damped into the sandbox via aluminium fins - I have persisted with the rubber feet. A stethoscope applied to the turntable plinth confirms the excellent isolation. I have very 'black' quiet backgrounds. Symposium claim they got marked improvements by coupling the TNT motor/flywheel to their 'Ultra' platform using their 'precision couplers' - See here. I haven't heard the Symposium stuff, and one must always be wary of manufacturer claims, but I'm interested in the approach. It's something I may investigate. Whether the direct coupling approach works will be heavily dependent on the platform used and it's isolation from the outsides world. Coupling works both ways. FWIW, in general, I don't like any spongy rubber feet under components. I feel they smear the sound. |
Tobes, I also have the TNT motor and flywheel on split plinths with aluminum fins into sand. Thread drive is a major improvement over the VPI belts, however when the thread drive is tensioned correctly it reveals the instablity of the stock rubber motor feet. In my set-up 3x brass Audiopoints under the motor was an improvement over the rubber feet. |
- 53 posts total