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Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper

I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
128x128ctlphd
tobes's avatar
tobes
436 posts
 
12-09-11: Ctlphd
Tobes, how big a difference did the single motor flywheel make? I understand they are phasing it out, so if I'm going to buy one, I need to get it now. Also, I thought about the motor sitting directly on the stand being a source of vibration, as it is not isolated like the table. I don't know of any solution to this, as any feet that I'm aware of would put it too high.

I wouldn't say it was dramatic but I thought it a very worthwhile improvement at the time (over my original motor setup - HERE).
Howver, for a similar outlay, you may get a better result with the rim drive option - but I haven't heard that.

In regards to isolation of the motor - you'll need to experiment with this. When I coupled my old TNT motor with solid cones to the same wooden plinth as the table there was a large transference of motor vibration to the table (via the plinth). The rubber feet were much better.
Though I now use the quieter motor/flywheel with split motor/table plinths - where both plinths are damped into the sandbox via aluminium fins - I have persisted with the rubber feet. A stethoscope applied to the turntable plinth confirms the excellent isolation. I have very 'black' quiet backgrounds.

Symposium claim they got marked improvements by coupling the TNT motor/flywheel to their 'Ultra' platform using their 'precision couplers' - See here.
I haven't heard the Symposium stuff, and one must always be wary of manufacturer claims, but I'm interested in the approach. It's something I may investigate.

Whether the direct coupling approach works will be heavily dependent on the platform used and it's isolation from the outsides world. Coupling works both ways.

FWIW, in general, I don't like any spongy rubber feet under components. I feel they smear the sound.
dgarretson
2,599 posts
 
Tobes, I also have the TNT motor and flywheel on split plinths with aluminum fins into sand. Thread drive is a major improvement over the VPI belts, however when the thread drive is tensioned correctly it reveals the instablity of the stock rubber motor feet. In my set-up 3x brass Audiopoints under the motor was an improvement over the rubber feet.
tobes's avatar
tobes
436 posts
 
Dgarretson, thanks for the tip - thread drive is something on my agenda to try.
I have experimented briefly with dental floss. This sounded pretty good but then I started to get slippage and speed stability went out the window (I was using it from both the motor to flywheel and flyweel to platter).
I think silk thread should be more a bit more 'grippy'(?)....I just haven't gotten around to trying it.
I'll also try the solid cones again under the motor/flywheel unit, since my setup has changed since doing so.
Cheers, Paul
ctlphd's avatar
ctlphd OP
42 posts
 
Thanks for all the tips everyone. Unfortunately, something's now wrong with my pre-amp or amp and probably going to have to send one to the shop. I'll get back to you when things are up and running again.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Ctlphd,

Sorry to hear about the new preamp/amp problem. If it ain't one thing...

Your sonic description of missing jump and snap made excessive VTF an easy guess, glad that helped. Those O-rings do fail after a while. I've replaced mine a couple of times.
I had always been told to use near the max tracking force tolerated.
That's appropriate advice for neophytes, who often use insufficient VTF in a mis-guided attempt to reduce friction. Too often, their stylus chatters around in the groove, doing 1,000X more damage than an extra gram of downforce ever could. Playing near the max prevents the worst of all disasters, destroying one's vinyl, but it also prevents hearing the most that a good cartridge can give.

A few years ago Raul was visiting us. We played LP's all afternoon. After a 1-2 hour dinner break we started up again and the music was decidedly duller: no weight, no oomph. I walked over to the Triplanar and slid an O-ring toward the counterweight by no more than the thickness of the O-ring itself.

BANG! All the life came back. Even Raul was surprised that such a tiny change made such a big difference. My .01g digital scale can't even measure the change from that small an adjustment.

This particular VTF adjustment was only needed because of the dinner break, which had allowed the cartridge to cool down and the suspension to stiffen. A hair more downforce was needed to optimize it. As we advance to higher levels of equipment the performance we demand increases, naturally. So does the care we must take to achieve it.

Hope the other thing works out.
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