Pass amp vs McCormack with Silver/Gold upgrades...


OK, I'm trying again. My purchases in the past have benefited and been guided from help here, and I hope my first SS amp purchase might benefit similarly. I've read a lot and my interest has focused on two amps (thought the Blue Circles are intriguing).

For the cost of buying a DNA-1 or .5 and getting $1000 to $2000 of upgrades, I can buy a pair of used Pass Aleph amps (more or less) such as the ones on Ebay right now. I have not heard either, but am going on lots and lots of reading.

Is anybody able to contrast the sound I might get with these two options? Or make an educated guess? Uneducated guess? Toss a coin?

Any comments would be sincerely appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim
river251
Jim,

There seems to be a general rule of thumb here on the boards that a 10:1 ratio of amp to preamp is sufficient. That means that a preamp with a output impedence of 600 ohms should be fine with any amp with an input impedence of 6Kohm or higher. I don't really agree with this, I tend to think that ARC's requirements of 25 or 30:1 as a minimum is a better estimate. Meaning a preamp with an output impedence of 600 ohms should not be mated with a amp that has a input impedence of under 18K ohms. Generally the higher the ratio the better. For example, my preamp has a 600 ohm output impedence and my amp has a 50K input impedence. When you have an impedence mismatch you tend to hear it as rolled off bass and highs.

If I remember correctly, the McCormack and Pass amp have input impedence's in the 10K-20K range, which is relatively low for a power amp. Many tube amps have an input impedence of 100K-200K ohms. Tube preamps have higher output impedences than their solid state brethren. Many solid state preamps have output impedence under 100 ohms. So the danger is when you match a SS amp with a relatively low input impedence with a tube preamp with a high output impedence. I don't know what the output impedence of your CJ preamp is.

IMHO, going from a PV-5 to a PV-11 will not accomplish much, it's still a warm sounding CJ product. You seem to be looking in around the same price range that I am now in, as I paid $1125 each for my Coda Model 11 and my VAC Auricle. I have owned much more expensive gear, but these units can hang with just about any gear. The VAC is a full function preamp, so I don't need an additional phono stage. Also, I like the Coda Model 11 a lot, because after living with tube amps for a few years, I find that Class A solid state makes it the easiest to transition back to solid state gear. The best SS amps I've ever owned, Coda, Clayton Audio and Threshold, were all pure Class A designs.

Another thought is to try a used VAC Avatar Super integrated amp. Those amps are fabulous, you should be able to get one for under $3K and it will be very hard to beat for that $$$. Your speakers are a bit low on the sensitivity side, but are 8 ohm loads and you have a relatively small room, so 80 wpc of tube power should be plenty. The VAC preamp section is much faster and more transparent than a CJ preamp.

Cheers,
John
Hi John. Just to try something SS without really opening my wallet I just picked up a like-new B&K ST-140 (105w version 2). I know these are a bit weak in the bass and high end, but it will be an easily recovered data point. I waffled between that and an Aragon 2004 MkII also on Ebay but my wallet won.

The only info I can find on the CJ PV-5 output impedance is 200 ohms. The ST-140 input impedance is 24Kohms (Aragon 2004 is 22Kohms). What do you think? I have never had a SS amp aside from receivers in college.

I looked in Audiogon for an Auricle and Coda, Clayton Audio and Threshold amps. There is a Threshold (above my budget) but none of the others. The Avatar sounds very attractive...there is one but it's 4400, a bit special it seems. Moot though as the 3K is out of reach right now.

Many thanks for the thoughts. I think the first thing right now is see what SS sounds like, keeping in mind I'm at the low, low end. I understand some cap changes can alleviate the wooshy bass and rolled highs in the ST-140 and at this price point I would not be afraid to try it myself.

As mentioned I probably need to be working on the preamp instead of the amp so I'll be keeping my eye out. Should you ever decide on an upgrade on the pre, let me know. I'm curious how the Auricle sounds relative to an ARC, CJ, or Audible Illusions...

Jim
Really? 100K? I always thought that McCormack's were around 10K and Pass around 20K. If your CJ is 200 ohms, you shouldn't have a problem, even with 10K. However, I think you are looking for something with more resolution than CJ.

I've heard the B&K's, but never owned one. I did own a Aragon 4004 mk II many moons ago, it was a nice amp for the $$$. When considering preamps, CJ and Cary are at one end the the tonal spectrum, the rich, warm vibrant end. ARC and VAC are on the other end of the tonal spectrum, the transparent, high resolution end. Audible Illusions is more in the middle, but leans towards the transparent end.

With the 24K inpedence input you should be alright with any preamp with an output impedence under 1Kohm.

What kind of cables are you using? If you're using warm cables like Cardas with warm preamp like CJ and warm speakers like ProAc, that also could be a mitigating factor. Let me know what you think once you get the B&K hooked up.

John
I hate to be Debbie Downer here, but there is little comparison btwn a B&K and a stock DNA, let alone a modified one.