You realize that Phillips replacement for this SACD player is coming out soon and will retail for $499. It will be 24/192 and play DVDs. I imagine it will sound better with redbook CDs than the SACD 1000.
KF |
KF - while it is known that the SACD 1000 has been discontinued and I believe that the 963SA is the replacement model its not a given that it will sound better. The SACD 1000 may have its limitations (no progressive scan, no digital out to a DAC for music) but it was a "statement piece" and its build quality (save the drawer) is reported to be substantial which is not the case with its replacment.
I would have to guess that if video is a concern then the 963 may be the choice to make but as a redbook/SACD player the comparison has yet to be made. |
The 1000 has a mediocre to poor reputation as a redbook player. Below is one very recent thread from Audio Asylum's digital forum on it's redbook performance. My recommendation would be to wait for the newer model (963 I think) however, I have not heard the new model.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/113960.html |
Rgd, substantial built quality does not always equate to better sound. I will readily admit that I am not familiar with the sound of the SACD 1000 or it's replacement. However, 9 times out of 10 a company will not not replace a piece with an inferior piece. I know there have been exceptions to this rule, but technology does progress, and there are usually good reasons for a piece to be replaced. Digital technology ESPECIALLY progresses. I do think that some of the newer generation of digital is sounding better than the cutting edge digital of two years ago. Take the Ayre CDP for example... Build quality on the Ayre is OK (not great but and deffinitely not like the AMAZING build quality of say the EMC-1 mk2 or Cary 306/200); NEVERTHELESS, I think the Ayre really does sound a lot better than those CDPs by a pretty good margin (in a few systems I have heard, including mine).
Phillips is replacing the SACD 1000 with a player that does 24/192 upsampling of Redbook CDs which should be better than the sound of the SACD 1000 on Redbook CDs. At $500 for the replacement, I am beginning to regret purchasing a new Sony $200 DVD player. Oh well... I guess I will wait a bit longer for SACD.
KF |
some of you are missing the point. take the sacd 1000 as a $400 redbook cd player and how does it compare to the nad 541, arcam 62t, rotel 1070, music hall cd25, or rega planet? this is what i am trying to get at as most of you are comparing it $2000+ cd players and dac combos. |
Okay, everyone. I just bought a SACD1000 and I was expecting it would have the ability to replace my current Digital SetUp, a Philips 921 (Transport & a MSB Link II (DAC). Ihave burned it in for 100 hrs. My result with SIDE-BY-SIDE comparing with a Philips 921 (as a transport) and a MSB LINK II (DAC), is, the MSB totally blew the new SACD1000 away! MSB apparently produce higher resolution and more accurate Hi-Freq than SACD1000. Midrange would be warmer for the SACD1000, but the soundstage yet is more shallow and narrow than my MSB Link II; too forward, forget about the word "deep". Low-end bass would be a little bit slow and over-weight; yet doesn't even go that low, extremely low-freq disappeared! Speed wise, the MSB is a lot faster and punchier than the SACD1000. The fact that it doesn't feeds PCM digital out for audio CD made me stuck from parting it with a quality out-board DAC. As a $400.00 Stand-Alone CD Player, it would be a Class B. I don't know why the hack it was rated Class B in Stereophile, as I said, maybe the total general rating would be Class B because it's cheap price and compatibilities, but it's too far behind from MSB Link II DAC which is rated Class B also. Video-wise it uses only 10bit video chip and it doesn't have Progressive Output. SIDE-BY-SIDE comparing with my Philips DVDQ50, result in lack of functions and picture resolution. The DVDQ50 apparently produce a more natural, better contrast, and higher resoltion picture. Well, you have to think about that the DVDQ50 is a Stand-Alone DVD Player ONLY. All the money you paid went to DVD, of cause it produce such a state-of-art video picture. Unlike the SACD1000, for $100 extra it went to alot of other places like SACD/DVD/CDR/CDRW compatibilty, a bigger power supply, a bigger chassis and multi-channel and a lot more component inside the unit...
I don't think any of you has done a SID-BY-SIDE comparing, what I have here will tell you how good/bad the SACD1000s sound-------Good and warm midrange with limited hi & extreme-low frequence. Sounds not as accurate and fast as it should be, at least the same class MSB Link II has done it... Fair picture quality with lack of progreesive scan and PCM digital output will make you feel like hell from upgrading. Function-wise it would be a DVD player with very little functions. However, as a $400.00 player, you get DVD playing, and Multi-Channel for free. So, no matter what, it's worth the price somehow.
As a excellent redbook player, I would suggest you look elsewhere. If you have a tight space or you only have a limited amount of money to spend, this would be the player for you! Single chassis, plays SACD/DVD/CDR/CDRW and produce "okay" sound from it. My personal conclusion with the SACD1000 would be:
An "Okay" DVD player with SACD Multi-Channel as an extra.
I was going to replace it with my Philips 921 (Transport) and MSB Link II (DAC), but I think I have to keep them now. I am starting to look for a Marantz SA-14, SA-8260 or maybe I will go for Sony SCD-1. I am keeping it for my secondary system. I couldn't upgrade, because of it's lack of PCM digital output for audio CDs and it's lack of progressive video out. Maybe I will sell it? To me, it's a Class C for Audio & Video and a Class B for it's value.
Many of you know that the Philips is coming out with a new SACD/DVD player called the DVD963SA. I have seen both the inside of the two units. The SACD1000 features the Marantz HRAM Module, but the DVD963SA doesn't. Both the power supply and the electronic component inside both the unit are far different. The DVD963SA looks like a cheap player (it's weight half the SACD1000), the good things are:
It has progreeive 12bit/108Mhz
It feed PCM out for audio CD (As I was told)
It's video circuit can be shut off while playing audio disc, to lower interferences and dissortion
It has a newer firmware, of cause
It upsamples to 24/192
If you people are waiting for a DVD963SA instead of buying the SACD1000, then I think it's wrong. Video and function wise the DVD963SA would definitely be better, but audio-wise I don't know if the DVD963SA will perform better with such a tiny power supply and lack of Marantz HRAM Module. Email me if you peoiple are interested in further discussion with me about these units and if you have any questions. Good luck AV hunting!
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After 96 hours of burn in my Tweeters $399 special is really performing well. The SCAD CDs are very nice to listen to. Very dark background but I like that. Seems fine on the high and low end although I run a sub with my 2 channel tube set up (run a parellel feed directly out of the 4 ohm taps into the high inputs of the sub and match the bottom end of my speakers to the top end of the sub as best as possible frequency and level wise)so low end weakness would not be a factor for me as it may be for others. As far as redbook CD player, I am pleasently suprised. I run a Ah! Tjoeb with upsampler and Amperex tubes and love that player. The Phillips is VERY close in resolution soundtage and dynamics although the Ah! is warmer (which is how I prefer things with redbook CDs). Very happy so far. Hope another 100 hours of burn in will really do the trick.
BTW: The 1000 is a lousy DVD player. My $200 Toshiba with progressive scan blows the Phillips away. Also, the 2 channel outs on the Toshiba do a decent job on DVD audio into my amp whereas the Phillips two channel outs are NOT meant for high def audio (read the manual). The Phillip's on-screen displays are just awful and about 3 years behind the times. This is DEFINITELY a music player and NOT a movie player. Phillips rightly marketed this as a music player first and foremost although at its original street price of about $1000 that should not have been the case. |
As an aside to the post from infinity_audio, I have compared a stock MSB 3 using a Sony 779 ES transport (one of the last battleship-like transports Sony made before SACD)to a Linn Genki and it was neck and neck, so perhaps this is the general price range of CDP to compare this dac? Equipment was Bryston 3BST/BP25>N805>Kimber. The MSB also greatly improves the CD section of a Linn Classik. It's nice to have a one box player, however for the price of a MSB on the used market you can't go wrong with even adding it to a basic DVD player for decent redbook sound at a fraction of the cost of a comparable CDP. I'm waiting for a price drop on the current 777ES before I sell my MSB. |
Against my modded 333ES (a "Kerned" Level 1 mod + Superclock) both the redbook and SACD sections are better presented on the Sony - with the SACD section being closer between the two units. While its not too fair a comparison as the Philips has just 20 hours on it and the Sony is well run in I find the bass on the Philips a little loose and the soundstage farther back than the 333ES offers - kind of like I'm sitting in the 10th row with the 333ES and the 20th row with the Philips. Perhaps this will change with more time on the SACD 1000...
I had hoped that the stock Philips might "out do" the Sony but the Sony's mods have proven, at least at this juncture, too much for the Philips. Now I am considering having the Philips modded (by whom is not set at this time as each modder would appear to offer their own interpretation of how this unit should be tweaked) and will continue to play the Philips to see how things better with more time.
As my Philips may just be the only unit within Canada I don't think I'd have many problems re-selling (without a loss) if I decide that is the path to take...
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i agree qith Rgd because i realized the same sonic problem... it's terrible that many many says how good it gets dah dah dah .... i ran it it for 500 hrs and yes, it got a lot beeter, but it sounds NO WHERE near any 1K+ player. The soundstage is SUPER FORWARD, still... bass is lose, and from low to upper mid-range, it's blurry and has no focus at all... Hi, it opened up but still not yet airy. I will keep it for SACD and DVD, since SACD is still like a clawing baby I will NOT invest further most on any better SACD unit. |
oh... also ... a lot of the others are suggesting mods... mod this and mod that, NOT EVERYONE like to get their unit mod. Also, it voids the warranty and lower resale value. Spending $500 on this unit, and another $800 to mod it? You gotta be kidding me! I might as well get a Sony 777 or a Marantz SA-14! |
Just a quick note on redbook now that I have about 220 hours on the Phillips. It got ever so slightly better than at the 96 hour level. Opened up a bit more throughout and tightened up on the bottom and low mid end a little more too.
However, the Ah! is still a clear winner. Have to agree with RGD about percieved depth within the imaginary "hall."
As I had a/b'd my Ah! against a Rotel 991 before settling on the Ah! I can judge the Phillips against the Rotel to give an idea of product placement. The Phillips would definitely have beaten the Rotel had I kept that latter unit. So truthfully the Phillips is a great value in redbook at its $399 Tweeters price and probably worth buying as a redbook/SCAD "all in" box for some at the +/- $500 price you can buy through the 'gone.
As a SCAD player (which is, after all, why I bought this unit) it is a keeper and has its place along side my Ah! redbook CDP. |
All you people saying the PHILIPS SACD1000 is a good RedBook CD Player should go perform a "Ear Check-Up", as I suggest personally. Maybe some ear-tube cleaning needs to be done. For $399.99 and all that format compatibilities, it's a keeper; for the sound, it's a sucker! For spending $500 & another $800.00 to mod it, and when it breaks down and you all couldnt repair ir because you void your warranty, it will definitely be a lesson! |
Context. context, context people! For a $399 player it does redbook at good value for the money. No one is saying that this is a $399 redbook player that is as good as a $1000 redbook player.
HOWEVER, IMHO it would beat the Rotel 991 (which was a $1200 player list new) but does not beat the AH! (about $1000 with all upgrades new. But, you have to keep those observations in context to the price of the player, the purpose of the player (SCAD), etc.
Also keep in context the original post where TOK 2000 asked for opinions and observations.
Bottom line: for a $399 peice of equipment it more than holds its own at THAT price point even with a head full of earwax to boot. LOL :) |
Philips SACD1000 MSRP is $1599.00 and it's SUPPOSED to be treated like a $1000 class player. Dont let the price drop lower your expectation. Let me ask you, if this unit is never on sale and is $1599.99 would you buy it? and would you still think it's worth it and use it for redbook reference? |
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So, pardon me and dont get me wrong. For $399 tweeter price, it's still a SUPER DEAL. I am keeping one myself... |
I could have sworn this player came out at $2000, dropped to half of that in less then a year and was recently blown out at $400 (which should tell you something). It seems if one bought this player for over a grand they where reamed pretty hard for redbook, at $2K there are/where many other options! An ok deal at $400 but nothing to get so excited and offensive/defensive over, right guys? Seems a ton of folks here bought this player recently and have new-toy syndrome, you know, where everything YOU buy has to be the best and greatest just because YOU bought it, at least for a little while it is that way, right? It is very sad that one cannot voice a negative opinion on any product on this site without getting attacked, sad that people prefer ignorant bliss and constant ego bolstering.
Most people spit forth endless praise of the things they own, which is fine, but without perspective the praise is pretty empty. Reviews with praise and also critiques, especially when reviewed along with other gear, I always read and take note of. Endless praise and defensive attacks tend to turn me off from a piece (and a reviewer). Give Infinity_audio a break, he is entitled to his opinion on this piece, regardless if you agree with him or not, and same goes for fans of the player, to each their own. |
Finally, someone brave and fair has came out and stood up for me. Thank you so much "Socrates"!!
As I say in one of the other threads regarding with the SACD1000 (I was also attacked there!), it's a good deal for $400 (I said that many times here and there...) and for it's 1K class with it's $1599 MSRP, there are many many other strong competitors... People can not treat this unit like a $400.00 player because of it's price drop! It's MSRP is $1599.99! There is a thousand dollars difference there.... It's performance can only match up with player which is $1000 and under, I am sure many of you has read about the hi-freq roll off & it's bass performance here or in another threads, by the others. I was quite upset that this unit was hype up due to a crazy price-drop and when I purchased this unit, it was not as what other saids... and I, finally understand that WHY NOBODY EVER HAVE STATED OUT ANY SONIC PROBLEMS WITH SACD1000, is it because they will be personally attacked by the supporters of this unit? or they are afraid because they saw so many supporters of this unit here... they just don't bother wasting their time, because they believe their ears, not what other says...
People who disagree with my opinions actually attacked me with words. I was just telling the result of my review, maybe someone will also find the same problem I have with this unit and actually reply. If you were going to purchase this unit, maybe you will benifit from it also? If you agree my review, you praise; if you don't you, you write about it. That's all... Threads are for audiophiles to discuss, not for people to argue. Someone even answer one thread which I participated, with laugh and jokes trying to make fun of me, my comments and (even less-related) my typos... This is horrible! If you guys have anything to say rather than about stereos, please don't post them here...
The topic of this thread is "philips sacd 1000 as a redbook player?" and all I've been saying is that I don't think it's a great choice (as many many other have said here and in another threads). I felt the same with "Socrates" that why someone who gave bad comments with an equippment has to literally get attacked by it's supporters... There are people who like it, there are people who doesn't like it. Instead of taking my thread as a reference or an advice, all SACD1000 supporters just turn around and laugh at me, attack me... Is this just because this is a online thread, then there will be no bottom line for things?
If there is not ever anyone who complaint or give bad comments to a certain unit, all you guys will see, are just going to be the positive side of an equippment ONLY. I am sure while others are trying to get some advices or opinions on any item here in AudioGon Threads Forums, because he/she is thinking about purchasing that certain item; WILL want to know about the bad sides of it as well as the good sides...
I understand that S_an is a very good reviewer and he has his supporters. That doesn't mean that if S_an likes it, then everybody will like it; and he can go critisize my equippment set-up has sucks, I set it up wrong or suggest that I can stop bad-mouthing it...
I will stop posting reviews or any comment here in AudioGon Tread Forums because I am totally fed up with the situation I faced. It's also very upsetting at the fact that the few who has gave bad comments about the SACD1000 had literally get attacked by it's supporter.
Wish you all Hapy New Year. |
"So, pardon me and dont get me wrong. For $399 tweeter price, it's still a SUPER DEAL. I am keeping one myself..."
Infinity_audio
Yes, I do belive that is what was said here and is indeed also the point of the original poster's question. |
Infinity Audio....
Is this horse dead..... yet?
Please tell me it is!!!
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