Pivot to Spindle distance

fsonicsmith, I admit to being overly inquisitive at times, in my search for clarity, but on this thread, all I asked for was the OP to explain the very vague term he used to indicate he was satisfied with his alignment despite the known 5mm error in P2S ("pretty good"). I am an alignment nihilist, almost like MC, but I do make the effort to get it right, once. After that, I just listen. Like the OP, I have had the experience of accidentally discovering after the fact (and after listening to LPs for hours and hours) that I made an error in P2S distance. On that occasion, I fixed the problem and thereafter could hear no increase in my already high level of listening pleasure, compared to the hours I had spent with the misalignment. But I felt better.

To MC’s point, how many posts do we see where some guy describes a mysterious problem with his phono SQ? Those posts are almost invariably followed by suggestions that he check his alignment parameters. This is evidence that most of us are true believers. Conversely, when said complainant goes off stage and "fixes" his alignment, he almost invariably comes back to us to say how wonderful his LPs now sound, thanks to his having tweaked his alignment. I don’t know whether this is evidence for or against MC’s hypothesis. As you know, I am a big believer in subconscious bias that affects our listening.

Normal people usually set up PS first and then align a cartridge in the headshell slots using chosen cartridge alignment method (Baerwald, Lofgren, Stevenson or whatever it is).

Some people do that other way around? 

If your PS is wrong and tonearm already screwed to the mounting hole (and you can’t move it), then your chance to reach desired null points by moving your cartridge into headshell slots forward or backward is very little, sometimes it’s simply impossible! Or it’s possible just with 1 aligning methods of many (and probably not the one you wish to use).

Headshell lots are different size, depends on the headshell model.

Some headshells have fixed screw holes (you can't twist a cartridge in such shell changing alignment method).

Tonearms without removable headshell will give you even less possibilities, sometimes the slots are very small.

So the BEST method is to start from correct PS (always) !

clearthink1,179 posts02-10-2021 11:50amelliottbnewcombjr"Why aren’t all overhangs the same you might ask?"

Why aren’t all tonearms 23cm long why aren’t all tires the same profile?
...............................

Why can’t all people think clearly?

Joking aside, I am curious: different arms, same P to S, will have different overhang specs. What’s the process/science that leads the designers/engineers to those differences?

I thought by asking: dazzle em with brilliance or baffle em with bullshite would occur.

I thought some interesting links might be posted.

If it really bugs you so much?!? Get an SME tonearm - any!
No headshell slots and P2S adjustable in a more wide range than you’ll ever need.
Problem solved? 🤔

Of course not, as per standard, every suggestion has an infinite number of new and other suggestions. 🙄

Michélle 🇿🇦

Elliot, In the end, it's effective length that counts, along with headshell offset angle.  Since effective length is the sum of P2S + overhang, since different designs feature different headshell offset angles, and since there are at least 3 different commonly used geometries that all result in two null points on the surface of the LP (and actually a myriad of such solutions that just haven't been associated with the names Stevenson, Baerwald, or Lofgren), there are many "solutions" to the problem.  Depends where you want to place the two null points (closer to the spindle or closer to the outermost grooves, for example) and how much tracking angle error you are willing to tolerate when the stylus is NOT on a null point.  And I am as bored as anyone else with this topic.