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Placement of Salons to maximize soundstaging

I have a new pair of Salons and would appreciate set-up tips from Salon owners.

My initial placement has them 8.5 ft. apart (measured from tweeters) and, likewise, 8.5 ft. from my ears. They are toed in so that I can't see the inner side of either speaker, which means they are pretty much pointing directly at me and their acoustic centers "cross" a foot or so behind my head. The tweeters are 40" from the side walls and 35" from the back walls (more on the back walls in a moment). My ears are 41" off the ground. The speakers are spiked. The back wall in fact isn't a wall, properly speaking, but rather, is a pair of 3 ft. pieces of wall extending into the room from each side wall and forming the bases of an arch of wall which separates the 20'D x 15'W x 12'H living room from the 10'D x 15' W x 12H dining room (the entrance to the dining room directly behind the speakers and created by the arch is roughly 9'W x 10'D). In other words, each speaker's port has a 3 ft. piece of wall behind it and a big open space that leads to the dining room.

I'm driving the Salons with VAC 140 monoblocks through Kimber Select all-silver 3038 speaker cables, which creates lots of air (and, for the uninitiated, the VAC's a hell of a lot of slam and plenty of woofer control -- as I suspected, they do great with the Salons)

I'm getting very good soundstaging and the speakers more-or-less disappear. The bass is flat to about 30 Hz., but then falls off rapidly because the ports are not receiving much reinforcement from the small walls they fire against, but this is fine, as I'm in an apartment building and rarely listen to things like pipe organ music.

What I really like is for speakers to "disappear". Does anyone have tips in this regard?

Thank you in advance.
raquel
raquel OP
841 posts
 
Sorry. I'm tired. One more thing. All source components except the turntable are on Black Diamond Racing cones.
yorock
9 posts
 
Raquel, my Salons only have about 10 degrees of toe in and I have an incredible center image. I found that by using less toe in it made the speakers completely disappear. However my room is much different than yours. My Salons are 3 1/2 feet from the rear wall, 4 feet from the side wall, 9 1/2 feet apart, and I sit almost 12 feet away. Revel recommends the seating distance to be greater than the width of the speakers. Also my bass is rock solid down to almost 20hz. What is the length of your room? This could also be a factor. Good luck and happy listening!
Rock
raquel OP
841 posts
 
Dear Rock:

Thanks for the response.

The dimensions of my room are described above. I'm pretty sure that the reason I'm not getting deep bass is because the ports don't see much of a wall (most of the space behind each speaker is an open room -- see explanation above). I had Dynaudio 3.3's before the Salons. When I put them on the long wall (i.e., there was a full, concrete wall behind them), I got solid bass down to 25 Hz. (but a nasty hump around 50 Hz.). When I put them on the arches, which is where they ended up and where the Salons have to go, the bass was even and solid (flat) to 30 Hz., but with a drop off of nearly 20 db. at 25 Hz. and below. As mentioned above, deep, deep bass is actually a liability for me because I live in an apartment building (it's old and sturdy, and we're on the top floor, but I don't want to push my luck with the neighbors).

But back to soundstaging, yes, the manual says sit farther away than the speakers are apart. I can reduce the toe-in again, but when I did, the center image suffered from the nearfield listening position, which is where I always listen. I'm a bit hamstrung by aesthetic considerations (I can't swap my listening chair and the coffee table in front of the couch, for example).

I can definitely play around with toe-in, however, so I'll give it another shot and report back.

Thanks.
rzemkoski
87 posts
 
When my Salons "disappear", its largely due to the recording. I have them 7ft into the room and 4ft from the side walls in a 20x30ft room. Like you, I listen in the nearfield, with the inside panels just visible from the "sweet spot". The soundstage is high ,deep and wide with the music portrayed from behind the Salon.

With so many drivers in your face, very large speakers have a pronounced presence in the room (acoustically and physically) which makes them a bit harder to disappear. Bookshelfs and monitors are champions of the disappearing act. But we're lucky, we've got the Salon!

Any room treatment? A large Tubetrap in the center of your dining room entrance would give you a more concentrated center image and will enhance the disappearing effect. Tubetraps are somewhat light and can be moved away when your not "engaged".

Revel in your speakers!
raquel OP
841 posts
 
Dear Rzemkoski:

Many thanks for the input. I've been fooling around with placement all morning and have them back where I started, much like your set up.

My room is a bit smaller than yours at 30' x 15', and is segregated by an archway into a 20' x 15' living room and 10' x 15' dining room. The "bases" of the arch are the "backwalls" for the Salons, but they protrude only 3 ft. from the side walls, meaning each speaker is loaded only by a small corner. As noted above, I'm pretty sure this is why I don't get much bass below 30 Hz. (bottom octave bass on this speaker derives mostly from the ports).

As far as room treatment is concerned, as much as I would love to have linear frequency response, I can't handle room treatment products and stick with draperies, carpeting and bookshelves to adjust sound, i.e., by personal choice, I live with certain frequency response anomolies that more "committed" audiophiles would address with room treatment.

The speakers, as placed, do a pretty good job of disappearing. I suppose I wanted to know if there was anything I was missing, and all of you have been most helpful in this regard.

Thanks again.
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