Is soundstaging emblematic of reality?

The "pan pots" used in mixing have everything to do with soundstaging as that's how you place instruments in the mix...many engineers get that wrong but it can still be listenable...a pet peeve of mine is the "30 foot wide drummer" that appears to have a ride cymbal way over there, and the rest of the kit over there...lame, but that's really common. Well recorded little jazz groups (a fave) make it seem like a group of people is naturally placed there in front of you with nobody smushed up against either side.

I agree, totally with th OP. So much, that I don't know the reason for the post?

Since most recordings are made in a studio, the imaging heard in live performances (if any) has little to do with how most LP’s, CD’s, etc. "should" image. Studio recording engineers are for the most part not attempting to create a realistic, lifelike sound stage. Like it or not, live and recorded music are two different things. In Pop, the difference is absolute. Mixing consoles are used to place each separately-recorded instrument or vocalist somewhere between left and right speaker, an artificially created illusion, a card trick.

+1 @ wolf_garcia
And Studio recordings are Still being mixed.
Most anyway.

Music occurs in 4 dimensions like everything  else so the answer can only be yes. 

I would say it's not essential. There are many of us who prefer a classic performance, say a Furtwangler Beethoven or a Horenstein Mahler, in scratchy mono over a poor interpretation on a recording with acoustic gymnastics.

But it is an essential part of enjoying the concert experience, which is the reason why the San Francisco Symphony places the musicians further apart during recordings rather than in their concert positions. Makes it easier for the engineers to do their thing to fool us with the interaural time difference in our hearing.

I’ll leave necessary or not up to the listener. I do know that as a beginner I lost sight of satisfaction and got trapped into upgrading into what soundstaged and imaged better. It’s a pitfall so beginner beware. I feel now satisfaction first, imaging second. If you have both, great!

Get the soundstage right and the rest will follow. - Audiophile axiom

An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - Audiophile axiom 

I don't go to live shows for the sonic experience solely. I mean, most venues have crap sound anyhow, and the idea of a live show nowadays is so much more than just the sound of it. So whether I'm sitting at the front table are the yellow jackets gig at a jazz club, I whether I am right behind the sound guy at a Phish show in an arena, I'm not trying to see if this is the best sound I can get.

At home I can explore the whole holographic idea of sound, but unless it's a beautifully mic-ed live performance, I'm not going to equate the two schemas at all.

You're actually asking two different questions re: reality (in the title) and enjoyment (your concluding question), but the answer is basically the same. 

It can be a recreation of reality if recorded properly, and, getting enjoyment out of a manufactured sound stage most certainly depends on the mix and the illusion it creates and the abilities of the recording engineer to pull it off in a convincing manner. 

Either way it's a win-win when done well.

All the best,
Nonoise

I love a well engineered soundstage .i find oldest stereo recordings are way out of wack. Everything is just left or right . Mostly to exaggerate the stereo effect and the new hype of it . No actual sound stage. Systems do not sound worthy if the soundstage is lacking. Most details that we obsess over , lead to it .  

On the other hand, if you listen to some good live recordings, there is a very high probability you will never hear that same perfection and separation of instruments as you would on the recording in a live venue.  Case in point, listen to the spring '77 Betty Board recordings and the 72 Dan Healy recordings of the Grateful Dead. The are incredible sounding recordings. Listen to a Here Comes Sunshine from 71-73 with headphones and you know exactly what I mean.  

If you are listening to the Bruce Springsteen wall of sound, it doesn't matter where you sit in the venue, or your home.  You are still going to get blasted with that damn wall of sound.  I really appreciate Bruce, but when you can't distinguish the instruments, then well, I'll go back to Phil Spector.  

Elizabeth,

 I take your point!

mapman
Music occurs in 4 dimensions like everything else so the answer can only be yes.

>>>>As I’ve described in the complete explanation of how the Clever Little Cock works the TIME of the recording, second by second, is captured by the microphones along with the other three physical dimensions and comes out when the recording is played along with the other three. Unfortunately, the time coordinates captured during the recording session are very different from out internal clock with is “present time.” Many recordings we listen to were recorded 40;or 50 years ago. The two very different time coordinates clash, interfere. That interference produces subtle subconscious “confusion” in the brain 🧠 that degrades the sound. Thanks for bringing up the 4th dimension. By the way, early during the Big Bang there were many more than four dimensions, up to 26, depending on which theory you buy into, as spacetime is extremely warped due to gravity.

I don’t know about the clock but the schpiel about it is very clever.

May and Peter Belt and I conspired to write the explanation ten years ago. Time flies when yer having fun. If time did not exist man would have to invent it.

I’m sure she holds no grudges, your histrionics aside. I didn’t realize it at the time, even though I was in a great many threads on AA and Stereophile forum with May, especially when Michael Green hung out at Stereophile a few years back, going back as far as the Intelligent Chip Wars on AA IN 2005, probably back to 2000, whenever May sat down at the computer to compose her comments Peter was sitting right next to her. Two of the nicest people ever.

What is the alternative to having soundstaging ? Would you prefer that all instruments come from the same space ? All diffuse and unrecognizable . Don't get why you wouldn't want every instrument separated . 

One could probably argue that a system which gets the soundstage right gets time coherence right. That should be important for micro detail and 'texture' - like the body of an instrument or vocalist.
Ime, these features are linked.

I heard the best soundstage ever yesterday. Nothing comes close. Customer No. 1 in Arlington. Whoa, Daddy! It’s a freak out! Get the soundstage right and the rest will follow. And guess what? It’s digital. 😬

Maplegrovemusic,

You bring up a good point. 
I just think imaging should not be over valued as the end-all of music production.
Many other tonal  factors enter into it.  
Also, some of us get hung up with the pursuit of imaging and forget that the music is the real object.

 

Rvpiano
+1, Soundstaging and imaging insure that the musicians are in the room.  Expression and interplay insure they are interesting.  

Sound staging and imaging, put me in the venue.    Instruments and people have size, shape and weight/impact.   A live venue; dimensions and resonances.  Good imaging and sound staging, will resolve all(given a good recording).  

Everyone has different listening preferences.  One person's appreciation of imaging and soundstage is another annoying distraction.  

In listening to classical music, I personally consider strong imaging and soundstage reproduction an enhancement to the listening pleasure.  

Soundstaging exists in the imagination!

The dimensions and Sabine acoustics of any live venue are reality. The reproduction and/or consciousness of such, depends on everything from recording/microphone setup, to the end listener’s system, speakers, room, ears and brain. (https://audioengineusa.com/explore/what-is-a-soundstage/) (https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-news/is-stereo-imaging-overrated.html) (https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1286awsi/index.html) The OP asked, "But is it an essential component of musical enjoyment?" Some people simply do not care about it’s reproduction. Some of us, interested in a more realistic reflection of an actual musical event, do.

Reality exists in the imagination. One’s reality is limited by a limited imagination. A soundstage quality is a product of sensory perception, imagination, quality of the system and recording as well as memory and the mind’s ability and skill of integration and location. We are the champions! We are the Clash!

I listen mostly to classical.   It is true that when the microphones are placed in an ideal spot in an orchestra (or for that matter in a chamber group,) and there is no multi-miking, a good illusion of reality can be achieved.  With multi-miking in any venue, the reality is “created” by the engineers. 

Soundstage is a product of the "quality" of everything in your rig; wire, interconnects, electronics, speakers (not as important as almost everybody thinks) room acoustics is very important.

The only reality that matters is the holographic imaging in your listening room.

“The only reality that really matters is the holographic imaging in your listening room.”

NOT!!!!!!

Soundstage is a product of the "quality" of everything in your rig; wire, interconnects, electronics, speakers (not as important as almost everybody thinks) room acoustics is very important.

The only reality that matters is the holographic imaging in your listening room.

+1 to @orpheus10 's entire post. [Emphasis: A Result of!]

I think it somehow also relates to the kind of music you are listening too. A superb soundstaging helps me to connect much more to music representing a high level of complexity.
when the speakers are totally disappearing and you look into this great holographic soundstage, i fell it’s like the very best seat for the show. Coudent live without it and for me it’s absolutely essential. 
With a deep black soundstage and a quick reacting hifisystem you hear so much more life/live in the music.
If the tonality and the size of the musicians/ instruments also are superb balanced, then it’s real highend experience.
I certainly agree that a well designed listening room is a must to reach highend level as well as tweaking everything is.
In music we trust, happy listening.

For me, great soundstaging is the magic of hi-fi. Here’s the deal: Recorded music, as hard as it tries, simply doesn’t sound the same as live music. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a recording that fooled me into thinking it was live music (and I just returned from RMAF, where I heard some of the best system on earth).

There is one area, however, where recorded music does something that live music cannot typically do – create a magical sound stage. That is where recordings surpass live music. There is something so engaging and – I’ll use the word again – magical about listening to a well-engineered recording that fills the listening space with vocals and instruments that are positioned throughout the space – center, sides, high, low, and everywhere in between. It creates that uniquely hi-fi experience that keeps us coming back for more and more. Don’t hold back. Embrace the fun. Yes! It is an essential component of hi-fi enjoyment!

+1 wester17,

I totally agree that recorded and live music are two different entities.
And yes, the audio experience can be more even enjoyable sonically than the live experience under some circumstances (but, to me,not all.)
The point is, some would have you believe that soundstaging is the EQUIVALENT of live.  Not so!

" I don’t think I’ve ever heard a recording that fooled me into thinking it was live music."

Once I was at an audio show. It was early in the morning, several of us who were associated with the room were there, and present was a musician (who gigs on acoustic guitar, vocals, electric piano, and drums). The musician had not heard the system before, and his back was towards it when somebody turned it on and started playing The King’s Singers’ a capella cover of Simon & Garfunkle’s "The Boxer". For the second or two between the start of the song and when he whirled around, wondering when whoever was singing had snuck into the room, the musician THOUGHT he was hearing live music. He told me there was a brief but disconcerting instant of this-does-not-compute when he saw no one at the far end of the room yet was hearing what he had assumed to be live music.

So it was over in a second or two, but at least it happened that one time.

Duke

I use an ambient loop system in the rear, with its own amp. I want the music to sound like it's happening right in front of me, right smack in the middle of my living room, not something happening between my front speakers with maybe a tad bit of depth.