Preamps waste of money?

The residual thinness you think you hear from S.S. preamps is the lack of coloration you get with all tube components. The thinnest, most sterile systems I've heard had no preamp.

Tmsorosk, this statement is incorrect. Tube preamps can be quite uncolored- for example our own preamps are fully differential, and that topology means that it does not generate any 2nd ordered harmonic distortion (coloration) that tubes are often accused of. OTOH, much of the thinness I hear in transistors has to do not so much with their bass response, but the fact that they make odd ordered harmonic distortion (in trace amounts), which is the thing to which the human ear is the most sensitive. Tube preamps generally lack this type of coloration.

With regards to the topic of this thread, although an inboard attenuator works quite well in a power amp, for the most part its impractical unless you have a very austere setup. Changing volume for example means getting up and doing two controls, if you have to mess with channel balance its a further pain, let alone what you do if you have more than one source. Of course, the exercise is likely good for you...

I keep the sources for my system in a place in the room where there is the least vibration (which happens to be about 5 feet from the listening chair). Its not between the speakers. So the interconnects to do the job are 30 feet long. This allows the source components to be in the best location in the room to minimize microphonics (especially noticeable at higher volume levels on most systems, with my setup, the system is impervious, unperturbed and relaxed at any volume). In addition I use custom stands and platforms to assist with that.

None of my sources can drive 30 feet of cable, but the preamp does that with ease and without coloration. I concede that Dracule1 has probably got his setup to work great with only one input, but its not something I would want in my setup at all- in my case the preamp is worth every penny and is indispensable!

Ralph, I have two digital sources and don't mind switching interconnects between the two, which I only do once in couple of months. Getting up from the chair to change volume and balance can be PITA, but I've gotten use to it. However, I have a solution...I'm getting remote controlled stepper motor for my Goldpoint attenuator that can adjust volume and balance. Two stepper motors, two Goldpoint mono attenuators, and control logic board including the hand held remote cost me about $500. Obviously you have install them yourself or pay someone to do it for you. I can't conceive of getting equal performance, unless I'm prepared to dish out serious money for a remote controlled preamp (ie, $15k+). It's mind boggling to me when I consider the amount of money I would have to spend on an external preamp to equal this simple setup in my system.

Last_lemming, I think your assumption less is more going the passive route is essentially correct, as long as you have equipment that are compatible and willing to make some sacrifices. I think I got lucky going this route.

The lack of odd order distortion is probably why many listeners find tube preamps more natural and realistic without likely knowing exactly why.Even order harmonics are consonant with music(overtones and funtamental) and nature.The thin and dry sound of 'some' SS components could just be the product of odd order disortion(no matter how small its presence?).

Brighter sound of SS amps is related to Transient Intermodulation distortion (TIM) caused by negative feedback used to linearize output transistors especially in class AB amplifiers. Product of TIM is overshoot of transitions (in time domain) equivalent of producing odd order harmonics (in frequency domain). On the other hand overly warm gear, that might sound great on guitar or voice, can make other instruments with complex harmonic structure sound wrong. For instance piano, that has harmonics much more complex than simple overtones, can sound almost "out of tune". Ideal amp shouldn't add anything of its own, IMHO, pleasant or not.