Price/performance curve

I agree, room has a lot to do with it. If I had a less than adequate, large (also key), room for a Hi-Fi set up, you shouldn't spend more than $5000 for the entire system. Any money spent beyond that and the price/benefit, or "diminshing returns" level is acheived. In a great listing room the price/performance ratio becomes much higher, $75K or more. I have heard some great set-ups and some great equipment. Believe me, the best SET-UPS always beat the the best EQUIPMENT. With that in mind I will say the JOURNEY to audio nirvana is half the FUN!!! The other half is the MUSIC - enjoy! Tony

Tony, what were rooms like where you heard great sound? Floor size, ceiling height, etc. I would guess that a well asssembled $10-20,000 system will give you 90% sound of cost at no object system. Just look at the wide range of equipment prices in Stereophile class A equipment. Personally unless I made $100,000+ salary I wouldn't spend much more than $10,000 on a system, too many other things in life besides stereo equipment and this gets you very good system......I think many people are obsessed with stereo gear to the point of mental illness, be careful not to cross the line!......he he he, Sam

Tubegroover, sorry if I was unclear. My intent is that for a total outlay of $6 to $8 thousand, up to 90% of what is in the music can be uncovered. I'm something of a hypocrite here in that my main system is five times this price range. And, yes you do get more resolution, transparency, greater soundstage information etc. as you spend more money. But I contend that the uncovering of musical information increases at a slower rate than that of audiophile esoterica. Take a look at a "good" manufacturer's line of speakers. What does the $2,000 model not do that the $20,000 model does? For $2k+ you can get a hell of alot of midrange resolution and soundstage accuracy without significant tonal colorations. The more expensive model unsually goes louder and expands the frequency range of high resolution into the low bass and the high treble. Now the effect of extending the high resolution into the frequency extremes does have a very positive effect on midrange resolution. In my system my main speakers go down to a usable mid 30Hz. When I added stereo subwoofers, not only did I extend the absolute bass response, but I increased the midrange resolution. I not exactly sure why, but my observation is similar to others. Adding high quality bass is expensive. Is it worthwile? I say so, but there are other valid opinions.

Onhwy61 Well I am getting a little off track here but I want to make a point about 20K speakers with deep bass and rooms. I don't know if you remember Lewis Lipwich a writer for Stereophile and Bass Basoonist with the National Symphony Orchestra. Back in the late 80's or early 90's he reviewed a pair of B&W 800 Speakers in a small room 15X13 or something ridiculous like that. He went on to describe the virtues of the system especially the bass response of the speakers. I was laughing my butt off reading it because it didn't make any sense. How can a speaker larger than a coffin in a room that size support the bass a speaker like that is capable of. Big speakers with great bass resolution require a BIG room otherwise you are throwing your money away based on my observations over the years. I have heard it set-up correctly only a few times. The best full range bass set-up I have ever heard was Vandersteen 4's in a VERY large room with a cathedral ceiling. It was real and accurate, breathtaking even, very quick with natural decay, like the real thing. I have never heard bass like that before or since, including audio shows and individual systems. Getting low accurate bass is not easily accomplished. Your other points are well made and I would agree, providing your room is large enough to support the subs, otherwise I would have to hear it to believe it has the resolution in the low frequencies without Mr Boom rearing his ugly head. I am VERY sensitive on this subject, bass that brings attention to itself or sounds exaggerated is fine in a home theatre application but has no place in a high end audio system, it doesn't sound natural or real to my ears. That is not to say that you don't have the room. Out of curiosity what are your room dimensions, and how are the speakers set-up in the room? Cheers Will

Michael You have asked a really interesting question the more I think about it. I will say this, that price point doesn't necessarily quantify a specific level of performance. Case in point Vandersteen 2ce Signatures. These speakers when matched to the best in electronics and a good source (I love them with ARC gear) offer on my subjective scale at least an 80, (I'm starting to sound like Martin Collums, for g sake). Every speaker in their price range that I am familiar with (one I even owned) don't fair as well. I still think they compete with many speakers in the 2-3K range WITH the right components. I don't necessarily equate higher price with better. It is a general misnomer that your system will automatically improve it you upgrade. Synergy is much more important. I have added more than my 2 cents worth on this subject, how about some other opinions.