2. amps-preamps
  3. 1342126846

PrimaLuna Dialog 2 User Review

There are not many user reviews for the PrimaLuna Dialog 2 integrated amplifier online so I offer this perspective for those that may be considering this integrated.

First Things First.

My equipment:

- B&W CM9 Full range speakers
- NAD T775 receiver (doing duty as the DAC)
- Samsung BluRay player (nothing special, HDMI output)
- LogiTech Squeezebox (coax output)
- Dialog 2 (Of course)

My taste in music:

Rock and alternative, heavy is preferred. My playlists include the likes of Volbeat, Halestorm, GreenDay, LinkinPark, Offspring, DragonForce, Coheed and Cambria.

What I do not listen to: Classical, Jazz, Easy listening, country.

Source Music Quality:

CD, DVD Audio (Rush-Moving Pictures), MP4A, AIFF, 24/92 from HDTracks.

* I was new to tubes with this amplifier.

Unpacking it:

The first thing you will notice about the Dialog 2 is that it is bloody heavy, it does weigh every bit of that 70+ pound shipping weight. It comes double boxed. Upon opening you will find the "white gloves" at the top layer for tube wrangling later on.

The dialog 2 is built like a tank (see my comment about its weight). PrimaLuna encourages you to open it up and take a look at the workmanship internally, I did, it is very tidy in there.

The remote is built from machined aluminum, it is hefty and in a pinch could be used for home defense. Opening up the remote (as you will have to do to change batteries) reveals cheap Chinese internals, my first remote arrived with the buttons running around inside the remote. The remote has rubber O-rings around each end to save your furniture from being damaged, expect to visit the hardware store yearly to replace these as they degrade quickly, especially if left in a sunny spot.

The Amplifier comes with the tubes (PrimaLuna branded KT-88) installed and all you have to do to get it going is remove the sleeves surrounding the tubes, wrangle the protectors off the single ended RCA style connector for the source of your choice (they are on there tight!), add power and speakers and you are in business.

Operation:

The amplifier is simple enough to use, turn it on, wait for the tubes to warm up and you'll be listening to music in 15-30 seconds. During the warm up period none of the functions work, so you can't select your source until the amplifier is ready to go.

The amplifier offers a Home Theater pass through source selection, this source by-passes the pre-amplifier section (12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes) and feeds straight to the power amplifier section. My thoughts on this feature; as you have to physically turn the amplifier on you will be up there waiting for the amplifier to warm up and listening to the wife complain because it doesn't respond to a remote control. Sure the HT pass through helps it fit in with the home theater but it still needs special attention, some thing the wife will let you hear about.

The sound:

This was my first foray into tube amplifiers, I was left dazed and confused!

From the beginning the Dialog presented very clear and focused vocals and well controlled bass, I kept waiting for the "full midrange" that tubes are said to have to kick in as the tubes burned in, I never found the full sound I was looking for.

I found the high frequencies to be sharp and hash, several songs I listened to, Coheed and Cambria's "welcome home" for example were so harsh I was sent running for the remote to turn down the volume.

Another sensation I experienced with this amplifier was no matter what the volume was set at, I always felt like if I just turned the volume up a little more I might find the sound I was looking for, I never did. In most cases after thirty minutes of listening I felt fatigued and would walk away from it.

I did try EL-34 tubes in it, the EL-34's seemed to move the frequency response up a little bit, I still had harsh high frequencys, the bass response was tight but reduced a little and the mid range seemed to respond a little more but not what I was looking for. Changing out the 12AX7 pre-amp tube did not make a significant difference either.

I did use the Demo download from HDTracks that has a couple of classical tracks included, the amplifier did well with these.

Customer Support:

A quick email to the PrimaLuna-USA website may or may not yield a response. If you complain in the right places you will probably end up talking to either or both of the two main people in the company, Herman in Holland and Kevin in the USA, what other company, hi-fi or otherwise can you say that about?

My dealer was as helpful as they could be but they had no one knowledgeable in tubes, trying to make a decision about which tubes would meet my musical tastes was frustrating to say the least.

Summary:

To be fair, I am not the audiophiles audiophile, both my equipment and music/quality tastes and choices probably did not showcase this amplifier in its best light.

The Dialog 2 is very well built and with care should last a lifetime, although I have my doubts about the longevity of the remotes internals. From my limited experiences the PrimaLuna KT-88 tubes seem to be of similar quality to most of the new manufacture tubes available on the market. One of my KT-88's burned out at about eight months, they are warranted for six months ...

For a heavy rock and roller with average source material I found the sound to be harsh and fatiguing and generally lacking in the fullness (low-mid range?), what it lacked in "fullness" it offset with razor sharp vocals (I don't know what range contributes to this but it was there). The bass is very tight and controlled. I imagine that this amplifier is much better suited to Jazz and Classical.

The home theater pass through lets you use the Dialog 2 as part of a home theater, I found this function to be of limited value as I always had to travel physically to the amplifier to turn it off and on.

If you are a newby to tubes definately take a demo model home before you commit, if the sound is not what you are looking for you will be on your own "tube rolling" to get that sound unless of course your dealer has some very experienced people on staff. Tube rolling my be fun when you are feeling experimental, when you are looking for a certain sound, the lack of information on the sound qualities of various tubes make it just expensive and frustrating.

So how did I finally get the sound I was looking for? My dealer let me trade the Dialog 2 for a SimAudio product and I've never been happier.
aussiejetpilot
mechans
3,048 posts
 
For the record I think it important that the speaker being 89 Db "efficient" doesn't tell the whole story. There are 89 Db punishing loads whose electrical impedance dips way down despite a nominal 8 Ohm rating. When that happens the speakers need more current and tubes just don't supply current very easily. There are yet other parameters like the reactance and phase angle, which I struggle with understanding, but I am aware of these and still other parameters. So OP perhaps the PL would have sounded more to your liking if you had different speakers. Who is to say?
Kevin knows and sells great tubes, I think your tube rolling was just fine and I am a tube nut.
It appears that a smallish tube amp just isn't right for you, no excuses or apologies should be made. It always comes down to preferences and opinions and you are entitled to have them. However, I am pretty sure if you could have bought an amp with higher output power ($$$) you might have come away from this a much more satisfied and content. I own a small integrated tube amp, a lot like the PL but not as good, and it doesn't come close to sonic experience I have had with my larger amps. Clearly you will be better served with something powerful and SS.
To those still thinking about trying tubes I wouldn't be discouraged by this experience, everyone has their own taste predilictions.
Just one question I thought the Cary V12 came stock with EL-34s didn't it?
A word of advice re the KT-88s. I use the Russian New Sensor Gold Lion KT-88s and really, really like them. I use 2 quads in my Jadis DA-60 and was delighted/ecstatic when I heard them. The Treasures may be good but I would very surprised if they are better sounding to you than the GL "re-issues."
davide256's avatar
davide256
399 posts
 
gents... the Primalunas are transparent. Given the low quality that aussiejetpilot described for digital source, he heard exactly what he should have heard, "digititis". And my suspicion is that his Sim Audio purchase included a better DAC section. So the moral of this story is don't buy a Primaluna unless you have quality source; its not going to lie about whats fed it. The power discussion is totally off... I'm running Magneplanars with my Prima Luna integrated which are even less efficicent than the B&W's quoted.
mwentsel
6 posts
 
I have the opportunity to demo the Prima Luna this week. I have Spendor A5's with only 86db sensitivity so it will be interesting to hear if they match up at all.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
David, the source as well as 'every' component in a system is important. So yes a better DAC will improve the sound.Power is`nt an irrelevant factor for some speakers(and I happen to prefer lower power amplfiers, mine are 8 watts). The amp-speaker pairing does matter a great deal,this particular speaker would benefit from a different type of amplifier for the reasons stated in earlier post.Aussie`s Prima Luna would very likely sound as you describe with the right speaker match IMO.Congratulations with your sucess with the maggies. I supect that even though they have a low sensitivity the maggie has a flat and smoother impedance curve and less phase angle shifts,so easier to drive(sensitivity is`nt the only factor involved here).
Regards,
mikirob
955 posts
 
Mechans, the Cary V12 does normally come stock with EL 34 tubes, but I ordered mine with KT66s. I also have EL 34 tubes for it. I like the KT66 better, but best in the V12 to my ears is the same Russian NOS 6n3ce I generally use in my Primaluna Dialogue1.
More to discover