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PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium amplifier or Audio Research Ref 75?

I own a Dialogue Premium (DP) amp and really like it. What's not to like? Build quality, easy tube rolling, auto biasing, great sound. I also owned the DP preamp, and it was equally as great, but I recently replaced the DP pre with an Audio Research Reference 3. At nearly triple the price when new, the ARC should sound better and it definitely does.

I have owned ARC gear in the past including the VT100 Mkii, and the VT200. Both were great amps, but I had to downgrade a decade or so ago, and now I am scaling back up. I have long been impressed with the reviews of the Ref 75 amp, and now I'm considering acquiring one, but I'm not so sure it will improve the sound quality for me. I don't need the extra power, and the DP has autobias and allows for tube rolling. I'm even wondering if changing from the KT77 I'm using to KT120 or KT150 would close the gap if there is one between the DP and the ARC.

Does anyone have experience with both? I don't need to be told that the DP or the ARC sounds great. I'd like to know if anyone has first hand experience with both?
audiojerry
7 responses Add your response
audiojerry OP
78 posts
 
With a name like tuberist, I gotta believe you know your stuff.
tuberist
951 posts
 
Jerry,
I have owned a PL Dialogue Premium Integrated about 2.5 years. I tube rolled With KT77s then KT120s and settled on the KT150. 77s had lean mid bass, 120s were too cold sounding, The 150s have no downside to me. They are powerful, tonally neutral and create a presence I really like.
jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
my understanding is older wilsons were voiced on spectral and krell amps, don’t know more recently

i agree the r3.8 traded midrange beauty (and efficiency) for bass response (which in turn was the criticism of the response 3 and 3.5 preceeding it) - the tradeoff removed some of the ’humanity’ from the critical midband - i still have my set of r3.5’s as well as a more modern d30r which somehow have resolved the tradeoff nicely ... 
audiojerry OP
78 posts
 
Interesting - I had read that Wilson voiced with ARC but not ProAc. But it coincides with my experience. Before downgrading I owned several ProAc models paired with my Audio Research: Response Tablette Sig, Response 2, Response 1SC, Response 1.5, Response 2.5, Response 3.8.

My lease favorite was the 3.8, and the one I miss the most is the 1SC. The 1SC often commands a resale price higher than its original if you can find one on the market. 
jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
you probably know this, but all response series, at least up to the resp d38’s were voiced with audio research tube amps (supposedly the vt100 mk3) by stewart tyler... i remember meeting him at the vegas high end show, asked him... since then i am not sure (this is also why most proacs sound a little lean and bright driven by ss gear...)

so with upper arc tube gear, you are hearing what stewart tyler intended...
audiojerry OP
78 posts
 
thanks for the feedback, jjss49. 

I agree associated equipment makes a difference - positive or negative.

I'm driving ProAc Response D2R, front end PS Audio DirectStream DAC, All plugged into a PS P3. DirectStream Bridge is connected to Uptone Audio EtherRegen Ethernet switch streaming Qobuz via Audirvana.  
jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 
yes i have

arc > primaluna

pl gives you alot, it's very nice, but arc just gives you more (you pay for it for sure, but you sure get more)

the better the system the more difference you will hear
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