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Recommendations please for good, affordable pre-amp for system?

Hi All, 

I'm configuring my first system, and have so far acquired the speakers (Thiel 3.6) and amp (Bryston 4B SST). I believe I need a preamp to complete this (and I believe only a preamp, right?). And I'm hoping you can give me some leads, information, and recommendations.  It's a 2-channel setup, and while it would be nice to add some HT capability in the future, I'm seeking as pure a sound as possible.

Some things I've looked at are Theta Casablanca, Bryston 0.5B, and perhaps for future upgrades, model Rotel RSP-1582 and Marantz AVR8802 -- although I'm concerned that those latter two, while brining nice features, will work to molest the signal.

Prime listening will be CD, with some lossless Network-attached storage, and Airplay with Tidal or otherwise Internet radio.

Thanks for your recommendations!
donzi
hanfrac
22 posts
 
There are lots of opinions and there are some people who hear more things than others and people who prefer some sound personalities to others.  No one here is going to be able to tell you which preamp work best with your amp, speakers, sources, etc. without guessing or without putting their personal tastes into your system.

You have some expensive, demanding speakers.  You got a well-respected amp.  If you bought a $300-500 Bryston preamp, you might love it, you might not.  But just because someone tells you that tubes add warmth doesn't mean that warmth is necessarily a good thing or that tubes are better.  My Aikido preamp is not a high-end tube preamp, but it does add a certain sound personality.  I went back and forth between it and the Pass endlessly before settling on the Pass.  I may go back to the tube pre one day, but for now, I'm perfectly happy with a simple, easy-to-use solid state setup.

Based on how you've been in this thread, I suspect you are at the beginning of months or years of buying, trying, selling, trading, building. 
oopwah's avatar
oopwah
20 posts
 
Look in an Andire  Diffet 2 preamp. Used within your low budget but vary neutral with abilities you need. Not well known but built in USA and good owner. I owned one and their Forte power amp. It was a good combination, but ultimately upgraded the amp twice before I needed a better preamp.
jhw9
39 posts
 
I’d recommend a TVC passive as it’s going to avoid most of the issues with impedance matching, will give you a very very low noise floor (prob most important quality for a preamp) and unlike other passives, they are still revealing at low volume levels (if you’re in an apartment, for ex). It also won’t need a socket.. no power cord). $500 preamps w/ AC power supplies are usually nasty sounding devices. Back to TVC, at around your price range.. the only ones you might want to consider are the Mingda TVC passives available on eBay. For the higher end I’d recommend a used Stereoknight or the newer similar version made by Audio Music (the RS).. it’s fully balanced. but for $350-$700, Mingda makes both a single-ended version and a balanced (XLR) version with two volume controls. You may not find it on eBay.. but just message them there. Fyi, these are simple devices.. so integration with home theatre will still require an additional ht processor device with ’pass through’ if you’d like to use multiple inputs/sources, but in general TVC’s will give you your best bang for buck. Another option is to pick up a used Rogue Metis for under $700 (stick with stock replacement tubes from Rogue). If you need it, the Rogue with thicken your musical stew in a good way. For transparency, a TVC will give you the cheapest most non-degrading volume control possible for the least $.

bondmanp
1,816 posts
 

I agree with the posters who suggested you get a cheap place-holder until you can get something that will do justice to your fine amp and speakers.  The preamp is, IMHO, second only to the speakers in determining the sound quality of your system.  One thing I get from your posts is that you seem to be equating tubes with warmer, better sound.  That is not always true, which is why an audition - in your home, with your system - is so crucial.  I would look for a good used Rotel pre, with tone controls.  While the Rotel probably will not bring out all your amp and speakers have to offer, it is more or less neutral in tonal balance, so you can see what a solid state pre does to the tonal balance in your system.  If you find yourself adjusting the tone controls in order to enjoy the music more, you need to either eventually find a preamp that compliments your system's tonal balance better, or select a better preamp that also has tone controls or EQ (McIntosh, Classe, others).


I have been very happy with my McIntosh C220 tube-hybrid pre for the last 5 years.  It offers complimentary tonal balance to my system, and does everything else pretty well, with great flexibility and features.  Horses for courses, as they say.


As for Monoprice, this is a good source for non-critical cables, like ethernet cables, but other budget sources for cables might offer better performance, such as Blue Jeans Cables.  I am not looking to start a flame war here, but cables should be compared in your home with your system.  Go with the cheapest cable that does not seem to harm sound quality.  For this you need a decent amount of time for a home trial.  I personally don't belileve in spending a fortune on cables, but something above the very basic stuff Monoprice sells will probably offer better performance that you will hear.  Like with the preamp, if you want to go up-market on the cables, get some place-holders from Monoprice or Blue Jeans to tide you over.  These will also provide a good way to compare pricier cables when your budget permits an upgrade.


It took me many years of very selective and carefully considered upgrades (many items bought used) to reach the point where upgrades are something I would only do if I suddenly had a lot more disposable income than I do currently.  I have a very budget-friendly system that I enjoy listening to for long listening sessions whenever I get the chance.  When I listen, I simply enjoy, with no nagging feeling that this or that aspect of the sound could be better to ruin my pleasure.  I've heard many pricier systems that I would not trade my own for.  But that is the result of luck, careful, well-researched (and opportunistic) purchases, and critical auditioning.

danvignau's avatar
danvignau
935 posts
 
Congratulations on the Bryston and Thiels. My Buddy has that amp and the matching preamp. I have Audire and they are certainly comparable.

eBay currently has an Audire Legato or $175.  I don't know of any other brand that compares with this preamp or less than $500, unless you get really lucky and/or find an Audire Diffet 2 or 3. I would imagine a B&K would be good (I have their truly excellent sounding tuner.), but I have never heard any thing else from them.

Bryston is very good, but due to national marketing, compared to Audire's limited market. the name costs a lot more.

I will tell you some preamps we have tried that sounded really bad with our Audire and Bryston amps: GAS Thoebe, Rotel, SAE, and Phase Linear/Carver (Not too bad, just not worth the money).

Although I never had a preamp from them, I immediately sold a Sumo amp I tried out. GAS and Sumo had the same designer. His Thoebe preamp was rotten to the core with the Audire or Bryston.

Brands like GAS, Hafler, and Phase Linear were designed well, but manufactured by the lowest bidder, whereas Bryson and Audire were made in house with the designers' overseeing production.

A small step up (from my somewhat limited experience) would be Theta, Threshold, Bedini or Mark Levinson, but they are overkill for your Bryston. I love Audio Research, but it is out of my price range. 

NAD and Adcom  have good names, and I liked my NAD amp OK, but sold it for a second Audire. The NAD was clean and relatively powerful, but did not separate the instruments from each other, while the GAS, Rotel, and Adcom preamps I tried were not good sounding at all.

Since John Curl designed some Adcom stuff as well as Mark Levinson which I have owed, I would imagine the Adcom pieces he did are good, but my experience with their preamp was not good, soundwise.


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