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Recommnedations for moderately price balanced IC's, and adaptors to an RCA end

The title of  the thread may be a bit unclear. However, I need recommendations for a "moderately" price balanced interconnects.  Also, are there quality adaptors to convert a balanced end into an RCA input or output without major signal loss??

I want to use my Rogue Sphinx hybrid integrated as a pre-amp because it has a variable output (pre-out) for an second amplifier, and connect it to a Balanced Audio Technology VK-200 amp that will  only accept balanced. IC's  

The Rogue integrated has all RCA input and outputs .Therefore, I also need a recommendation for two XLR to RCA adapters.   Eventually, I will buy a separate pre-amp, possibly the new Rogue RP-1.  

Thank you  




sunnyjim
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Hi Jim,
He informed me that "Line 3" of the Sphinx integrated is an input, not an output. There is an area on the back of the Rogue Sphinx sectioned off that has a variable and fixed output The "variable" output is the one he recommended for hooking up the BAT VK-200 amp
Yes, that is what I had said in one of your other recent threads.

In this lost e-mail, I mentioned that I had called Rogue, and was told by one of the techs that variable( pre-out) output runs through an "op-amp", and not the "tubed" section of the Sphinx pre-amp stage. He also noted the sound may not be quite as good, with a minimal loss of sound quality. O’Brien more or less confirmed the same fact to me in today’s conversation I mentioned in my e-mail that unless I am wrong the so-called pre-out was not a true or standard pre-out like the one in the Creek 5350SE Classic which I owned about 7 years ago, using it with a pair of Red Dragon M-500 Class D mono block amps.

However, I don’t know if op-amps are a standard design component for pre-amp outs on integrated amps in which you can separate the amp from the pre-amp stage. O’Brien claims that using variable pre-out on the Sphinx will still allow control of volume and other features on the integrated amp

Yes, we had discussed that in your other thread I linked to above. The hope and expectation, that seems reasonably consistent with the comments by Mark and by the Rogue tech you spoke with previously, is that the implementation of the Sphinx’s variable pre-out, while less than ideal, should be good enough to allow you to benefit from the power amp upgrade, and provide you with reasonably good results in the near term. Note the word "minimal" in the comment by the Rogue tech, with Mark apparently having commented similarly.

I don’t think it would be meaningful to think of the op amp implementation of that output as being "true or standard" or not "true or standard." It is simply one way of implementing a pre-out, and I’d feel certain that approach is not unique to Rogue.
I think I am somewhat back to Square One because one of benefits of XLR to XLR interconnects was the reduction of noise. I did buy the BAT VK-200 amp The deal was too good to turn down.
I don’t think you went wrong, by any means. The noise reduction that can be provided by a balanced interface (and also its reduced susceptibility to ground loop issues, that may cause high frequency noise as well as low frequency hum), is probably not a significant issue in the majority of home audio setups. That potential benefit can be expected in most cases to be overshadowed by differences in the quality of the particular component designs. And specifically in the case of many components that are not "fully balanced" but provide balanced interfaces, that potential benefit can often be outweighed by implementation of the balanced interface that is sonically compromised in the interest of keeping costs down. Such as by the use of a cheap op amp to generate one of the two signals in the balanced signal pair, by inverting the other one.

I would expect an Ayre or BAT fully balanced preamp to be a great choice, if you can find one at a suitable price point and in top condition. That’s a big "if," of course. But within your price range a preamp having an unbalanced internal signal path while providing XLR inputs and outputs might turn out to be easier to find and (depending on the specific design) a comparably satisfactory choice.

Good luck. Best regards,
-- Al

erik_squires
16,042 posts
 
There are two approaches to converting. One is to simply use the + and - leads as the center and shield in the RCA end.  This is the simplest way when your source is balanced.

The other is to use a high quality transformer such as from Jensen Transformers.  This is the best solution when your destination requires a balanced input but your source is not. It also solves ground loop issues.  Many like the sound too.

I believe you can also find simple, direct adapters using the first solution. Both should be available through Jensen.
erik_squires
16,042 posts
 
Here's a good source for adapters:

Parts Connexion Cardas Adapters
sunnyjim OP
927 posts
 

Thanks again to Almarg and others who have responded with very good  and plentiful advice

*******************************************************************************

To Mensch, your last response makes good sense because I don't want to jump too fast  buying  a suitable and quality fully balanced or partly balanced pre-amp to accommodate BAT VK-200 amp. 

As I mentioned before, I DON'T WANT to necessarily buy an outboard  phono stage and headphone amp or box . That is two more cables and also more potential headaches .I realize that a separate phono stage like the Musical Surrounding Phonophemon II  is an excellent  choice because I owned one  about 4 years ago. However, 75% of  my listening is by CD, and the rest LP's. I could easily live with a Project RPM-3 table packaged with a Sumiko Blue Point 2 cartridge

The easiest solution might be to buy the new Rogue RP-1 pre-amp reviewed by Stereophile   in the August 2016 issue . It has a MM/MC phone stage, an improved and higher gain headphone amp and a better remote with some additional features.  I am sure other reviews will follow.

However, as I noted before, the Rogue RP-1 uses only RCA connectors. Nevertheless,  it should provide a almost major step up in sound quality from the pre-amp stage of the Sphinx v.1. (I hope)  

The question is ( and maybe I missed something that Almarg noted  before)

 1) do XLR to XLR  IC's  "insignificantly" reduce RF noise carried by RCA cables. resulting in blacker grounds and improved clarity and transparency??  2) As Mensch noted, he acquired a "pair" of XLR to RCA interconnects through CablesOnline.com for less than $20.00 Several other members offered other brand name XLR cables or a combination of balanced to unbalanced IC's,

Almarg clarified about the  potential loss of volume employing an XLR to RCA cable as offered by Mogami, and others  However,I did not mention to Al,  I operate the volume in the range between 12 o'clock  to 2 o'clock.which may be greater than "upper 25% " of its range" as noted

. If  MY volume setting IS NOT as Almarg commented.  IN THE 25% UPPER RANGE.  then it is not a significant issue. I do play it loud, but not head banger loud.  Also,  the potentiometer of Sphinx seems to gain well at about 12 o'clock high, but the remote,  seems  to step the volume up  in 2 db increments, unlike the remote of Bel Canto Pre3. Its volume gain via its remote was more subtle and controllable.  

The issue for me is:....  I don't want to crank the volume up to 3 or 4 o'clock  high on either the Sphinx v.1 integrated or the new Rogue RP-1 pre-amp as a consequence of using  XLR to RCA cables.  If so, then I must search for a pre-amp that is either fully balanced or mixture of balanced and unbalanced connectors.  I need to understand more about the volume range I am operating  to make it  loud to my satisfaction   Thanks to all,   Jim 

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almarg
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Hi Jim,
do XLR to XLR IC's  "insignificantly" reduce RF noise carried by RCA cables. resulting in blacker grounds and improved clarity and transparency??
There's no universal answer, as it depends on many component, cable, system, and setup dependent variables.  As I mentioned, though, more often than not I would expect other factors to be more significant, such as the quality of the single-ended to balanced converter circuitry in components that have unbalanced internal signal paths (i.e., that are not "fully balanced").
I operate the volume in the range between 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock.which may be greater than "upper 25% " of its range" as noted
When I referred to the upper 25% I was thinking in terms of the physical position of a typical rotary-type volume control, which would have a range of adjustment from a minimum of perhaps 7 o'clock or so to a maximum of perhaps 5 o'clock or so.  So 2 o'clock would not be in the upper 25%. 

I haven't been able to find a spec or measurement of the gain, if any, that the Sphinx provides between its line-level inputs and its pre-outs.  But given that according to Stereophile's measurements the overall gain of the Sphinx between its line-level inputs and its speaker outputs is 31 db, and the gain of your VK-200 is spec'd at 25 db, it seems conceivable to me that on some recordings you might find yourself turning the volume up to the 3 or 4 o'clock positions you indicated you would prefer to avoid.  Personally, though, I would not consider that to be an issue.  And in fact it might even be desirable, as in some designs high settings of the volume control may lessen any sonic side-effects that may be introduced by the volume control mechanism itself.

Best regards,
-- Al
 
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