room size question.

@bigkidz 

pulling speakers off the back wall can sure help!

speakers have always been away from the wall and a few posts before yours, i had mentioned that the speakers are now 30" from the back wall.

@gregchick0 

The best I had was using bass traps in all corners, but my wife made me remove them because they were "Ugly".  I tried to pain them white, a very bad idea.  Buy white ones, they are said to yellow after a time, but still my recommendation.  

as mentioned in the beginning.....i have GIK acoustics and do have corner bass traps already.

after moving the speakers and adjusting the subs, had the wife listen last night to a few songs and she says that it sounds like the singer is right there, which again , is just the center imaging is there and there are times  you can hear / vision something behind the speaker, like a cymbal but that is it.     

Getting a big truthful soundstage is difficult in smaller rooms and where either the speakers or the listener (or both) is too near to the walls, resulting in reflections that break up the soundstage.

Padding out the walls too much is one answer but this leads to my reason for posting here.  Removing room reflections etches the image and makes it more like listening on headphones.

One answer to the small room problem is to migrate to headphones.

speakers are now 30" from back wall and 26" from side wall.      if you move them to far apart, then you lose imagining and just sounds like 2 speakers playing.  brought them closer together and it images just fine....but again, no soundstage. plenty of detail and vocals are clear, just missing that one thing.              

I am confused. You say "it images just fine...but again, no soundstage. Well, imaging IS soundstage. I think you have to define what you mean by imaging and what you mean by soundstage.

@bshaw 

As @jond mentioned you might try a corner set up. My 2 channel set up is a corner set up in a room not much bigger than yours. Excellent soundstage and image. Good luck! 

@bshaw my room is 12 X 18 but my speakers are along the long wall (yes, sacrilege), so i have a similar depth issue as you. My speakers are WAY out from the back wall nevertheless. (Over 4 feet). This is the result of lots and lots of experimentation. I've probably tried 75 different speaker/listening position combinations.

Don't be afraid to pull them way out. In fact, try this: start with them all the way out to almost your listening position, and then start moving them toward the back wall, 8 inches or so at a time. Keep them pointed forward (no toe in) the whole time. At some point, the soundstage will snap into place. Once you know they can produce a soundstage, then you can fiddle with toe-in. I do not subscribe to the view that toe-in should be used to generate a soundstage where your speakers otherwise cannot create one.

You may decide you want them closer to the back wall than the above ends up putting them, but you will know your outer limit this way. I did this after my speakers were already dialed in, as an experiment, and I ended up putting them back where I had originally put them, but the above process resulted in a placement within 3-4 inches of what I am convinced is their best spot. The soundstage is huge, wide, and tall.