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Safe audiogon transactions; lowering the bar.

It appears to me that a large number of people send bank
checks / money orders to pay for used equipment sight
unseen. Most private sellers insist upon this form of
payment. The culture appears to require buyers to take
significant risk in order to benefit from lower prices.

Although this is not surprising in itself, it seems to me
that Audiogon could preserve the long term health of this
website, and its priviledges with more proactive policies.

e.g. providing guidelines on how to conduct a proper
transaction; a list of important questions to ask,
what the seller / buyer should have in writing before
a transaction should proceed, and perhaps provide a
summary of the most common problems which develop between
sellers and buyers.

There are nagging questions: Who owns the equipment once
it has been shipped? Who should be insured?

Perhaps some experienced sellers and buyers would share
their own approach to transactions on this site and how
they get people to put their best foot forward despite
themselves.
hindemith
cornfedboy
1,645 posts
 
audigon has already done much of what you suggest. see: http://www.audiogon.com/help/disp/index.html
lots of useful information of the sort you seek.

-cfb
Ag insider logo xs@2x
porschecab
336 posts
 
This is a great topic! I will explain my understanding.

Example:

Buyer sends payment to the seller for a preowned Velodyne HGS-18 subwoofer.

SELLER has both the sub AND money! ACCORDING TO INSURANCE COMPANIES (AllState, Farmers, etc.) if the unit is stolen from the SELLER at this point, the unit 'does not belong to the SELLER' but the BUYER. At this point, the BUYER is not responsible for an action that they had no control over and must rely on the seller to refund the money. Usually, an acceptable deal, UNLESS the insurance company takes awhile to pay the claim the the SELLER has no cash to pay the BUYER back before hand! NOW, with that said, one would believe that the BUYER is now the legal owner, BUT, this is NOT how UPS, FEDEX, etc. views the situation.
To the shipping companies, the product belongs to the seller UNTIL delivered! This is why as a buyer you should INSIST on insurance, and COD payment option! At this point, NO RESPONSIBILITY is on the BUYER until he/she takes delivery!

This is a FACT, anyone that works in the insurance industry, feel free to correct/comment.

Dan

lmb
29 posts
 
I do most transactions COD or with Paypal. That eases the lost during shipment issue. Paypal in particular offers enhanced "blind" transaction features, and can do so since they have access to both parties credit cards/checking accounts. See their website www.paypal.com for details. The idea behind AudioGon is that you know what you want prior to the purchase.

For me many sellers have a tough time adhering to rating scale using 10 and 9 ratings when 7 is more like it. You must have the box and manual to issue a 10 besides the new in-box condition. Enough ranting...

I would like to see an SSL connection when logging in.
ultrakaz
187 posts
 

The following is the only way, as a buyer (and a seller), I would do business on Audiogon (especially if the product is over a $1,000):

1) Check the sellers feedback, if there is negative feedback or none at all proceed with extreme caution.

2) E-mail seller with the following questions: explanation of rating, why it does not come with obm (if no obm), why they are selling the unit, are they the original owner, and age of unit.

And, most importantly ask if they will do cod with a deposit (either you can send them a money order or you can paypal them). The amount of the deposit would be the amount of the shipping, insurance and cod charges and a little extra for their time. If these terms are not acceptable forget it. LET ME REPEAT, IF THESE TERMS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE FORGET IT. Don't get emotional and make an impulsive decision and lose your money.

3) If all checks out, ask for a phone number to call the seller at. Call and talk about audio, if they have been in the hobby a long time and are knowledgeable, chances are better that they are responsible because they probably would want to use Audiogon again in the future. If they appear to be credible send them the deposit. You've done all you could to ascertain that they are not flaky.

Of course, all of the above is discretionary, where their feedback is abundant and positive and the product is under a couple of hundred bucks you just may prefer to send them the money in advance.
rockvirgo
587 posts
 
Here is the five minute course in trade law...

The essentials (and the typical manifestations) of an enforceable contract are competent parties (adults), subject matter (something not illegal), legal consideration (money), mutuality of agreement (a meeting of the minds) and mutuality of obligation (duties). Contracts may be oral or written.

Ordinarily a sale occurs when the goods change hands. Businesses use FOB (freight on board) shipping point and FOB destination designations to specify the moment title passes. Insurance requires an insurable interest. You have one if the loss will cost you money to remedy.

Internet deals often involve three contracts, one each for the sale, shipping and insurance. Our sales contracts are seldom commercial ones. As such, the maxim "let the buyer beware" summarizes the rule that a purchaser must examine, judge, and test for himself.
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