Safe audiogon transactions; lowering the bar.

I just want to say this thread has a real currency for me as an admittedly highly suspicious newcomer with a number of marginal buys on eBay.

I just walked away from an ideal audiogon purchase (as it was described, anyway) because something made me nervous. I didn't bid but spoke on the phone with the seller about potential ftf audition arrangements, which he seemed to have later suggested skipping. Since the item in question is now marked as sold, I will watch the seller's feedback for new entries, and possibly post exact details later about what made me shy away.

The predominant theme around here seems to be, "there are many pitfalls, but I've never been totally burned myself." This frankly astonishes me, and I personally wrestle with questions of whether trust or caution/suspicion is the best karmic way to filter the good from the bad - it is clearly at root an act of faith to buy used equipment over the net, despite the shared safeguards covered in this thread....

Driver, I understand your point of view but I cannot agree. The refusal of a seller to accept COD payment is, to me, a much larger red flag than my insistence that it be the means of payment.

COD has some disadvantages and, yes, fraud is possible. But by and large all it does is to level the playing field, which is ordinarily very much tilted in favor of the seller. It assures that money and goods change hands at the same time; that is the most important part. Beyond that:

(1) It gets sellers off their bottoms and down to the shipper with the goods. I have consistently found that COD transactions are shipped faster than prepaid ones.
(2) It assures a quality job of packing and labeling. When I make clear to the seller that I will NOT accept a damaged parcel, the seller understands better his responsibility to pack carefully and securely. I'm sorry, sellers, but pushing the responsibility for safe arrival off on the carrier is a cop-out. We all know how UPS and FedEx handle their parcels and they aren't going to change because MY parcel happens to contain a Levinson amp. So it is incumbent upon the seller to pack defensively. If he knows that failure to do so will result in (a) no money and (b) the return of the goods for HIM to fight with UPS about, the quality of the packaging goes way up. I always make clear that I will pay for quality packaging and I never balk at packing charges that are anything like reasonable.

This is a personal choice. I have had some sellers accuse me of being unreasonable and others tell me to take it or leave it on their terms. I invariably leave it and I've never been sorry to do so.

As always, YMMV!

Will

I've read with interest the preceeding posts. I'm confused on(at least) this one thing:

If paypal takes compensation from one party to a transaction but not another or the conveyer, is it(Paypal) more beholden to the party that paid its fee?
Does Paypal use escrow as a euphamism? What am I missing?
What does Paypal provide and to whom does it provide it for its 3 % skim off the top?

Good points Will. I never thought of COD as a vehicle to provide quicker shipping & better packing. I'm always open to another way to approach something, be it use COD or switch from the SS camp to tubes. Open to but not ready to jump ship, I might add.

I read your post & thought it had valid points. I put myself in the seller's shoes to you & asked myself if I would have a problem doing a COD deal. First I would check your feedback-there is none. That in itself is not a problem as you've been posting for awhile. I would then look through your posts, which I did, to see what kind of person I was dealing with. From that I would not have a problem dealing with you & I did enjoy reading the "fishing" post the other day. The iconoclastic position intrigues me as I long ago read Thomas Szazz but that is a topic for another time. I would then follow up with a phone call to get a feel for how you conduct business and that would give you a chance to also make a decision.

Bottom line is every transaction needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis & there are several methods to ensure a safe & positive outcome for both parties. COD has been abused & is therefore suspect in a lot of peoples minds. Used properly I can see the benefits but that can be said of any number of so called "programs".

It's fun to see how suspicious minds deal with risk. The truth for everyone here who trades cash for goods is that there are no guarantees. Cod does present the risk of there being A.......s like that thief last summer from San Diego who paid cod's with forged certified checks to the tune of 100k+ and those who speak about boxes with no goods in them. I'll never understand those who have little or no transaction history and are untrusting of others who have substantial immaculate transaction history, and believe that cod is the answer. It kinda makes me suspicious of them!!!

Even in the box, in person transactions can be tainted. In person only assures the players that there is an item and that there is cash. NO more!

The protection under Paypal is only concerning verified members up to $200??? And when shipped to a verified address and when the claim is made within 30 days of payment. I have been clipped twice on ebay by CD/R sales which I thought Ebay would handle and by the time I didn?t get re-payment, it was over the 30 days. Not much money involved, but no repayment. Paypal has no guarantee against chargebacks when the purchaser uses a credit card as payment method. BIG RISK!

Wire transfers have clear advantages. Initially, banks have verifiability of accounts with tax id's and other bank references, generally including credit histories. Additionally, in order to wire funds, the seller has to provide verification of who, where and telephone confirmation numbers all of which can be checked. Reverse look up phone numbers for addresses and if not satisfied, ask for the audio shop the piece was purchased at and then look up the number and call the shop. Sellers can provide their bankers names and phone numbers as well. There is at a minimum very little likelihood of fraud by anonymity.

With the above available, I?d never ship cod to anyone with low feedback. EVER! Yes, anyone who does buy from me is taking a risk. But that risk isn?t that I won?t ship or that the goods aren?t as advertised, only that they won?t like what they thought they would.

Wires can't be stopped once received except for bank error. So, at least one half of the risk is removed. No method other than in person exchange completely eliminates the risk to the second party of not receiving the goods.

It?s unfortunate that only one side of the risk can be eliminated. But, given that fact, it?s 100% better than both sides being at risk.

Bill E.