Sat front row at the symphony...

@viber6 Why do you expect to “be nearly deaf if (you) get to be 100”? Honest question and no judgment implied, but the comment made me wonder if that is tied in to your need for a lot of “detail” in your music.

You are clearly a music lover and the bottom line is that this is all that really matters. You are also a musician. I am a musician. I generally prefer to not write about that when posting on audio forums, but we disagree so much on the issues discussed that it has to be mentioned for context. I am an orchestral musician and regularly play in major symphony orchestras, Needless to say, I have also attended countless live performances, That it is “a losing battle” for a violin soloist to be heard above an orchestra is simply not true. I am intrigued by how someone with your experience could form that impression. Good violin soloists have huge sounds that easily keep the sound of a fine orchestra from overwhelming. My goodness, violin works were composed before there was any kind of electronic sound “enhancement”/manipulation or recording.  Did all those great composers waste their time?

I got a real chuckle out of "Mahler 123's" comment :   "Hearing the spit clog a horn player's instrument is interesting, but ultimately distracting."   Years ago, when my wife was still my girlfriend, I took a real chance when I pointed out to her that the water that accumulates in brass instruments is condensation --- not spit !  The remark has never been forgotten !  All of my trombones work that way.

    The basic law of physics that states that no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time can be expanded to encompass the dilemma in which we find ourselves as the number of performers increase in an ensemble.  No listener can be in two listening positions at the same time either.  If you are close to one performer in order to experience intimate detail of their sound you will necessarily preclude experiencing the same intimate detail from the other performers in the ensemble. It is a reality with which we must deal that increases with the size of the ensemble. Normally, we would say that we heard the "??? Orchestra" last night, not that we heard the first row of the "??? Orchestra" last night.  Another problem that must be faced is when a large ensemble is being recorded and the recording engineer chooses to use multiple microphones.   The resultant phase distortion, as sounds from different instruments hit different microphones at different times creates a blurred image of what is really going on because the process is unintentionally attempting to emulate the impossible idea of a single listener in two [or more] different places at the same time.  In a symphonic setting, a person cannot be next to the concertmaster, the first clarinetist and the tympanist at the same time except in the magic world of the recording engineer and the twist of a knob.  Experiencing a live symphony concert from a position from which all instrumentalists can be in visual contact is the best compromise and has the added benefit of minimizing the natural phase distortion that such a large ensemble presents to the listener.   Smaller ensembles are best for clarity and perception of presence.  It is just Nature's Law.

One of my favorite recordings of Eine Kleine is a string quartet augmented by double bass, although I am out of town and can’t check my shelves to se who the performers were.

So I am in New York and last night heard Kavakos in the Shostakovich First VC .

we sat in the first balcony area. I had last been here before the Pandemic and the Hall renovation is a huge improvement. One can now hear the double basses that kick start the piece. In the Passacaglia the tuba has an important part and as the rest of the Orchestra peels off toward the cadenza the tuba progressively lowers the dynamics and each dimunition was clearly audible.

At that distance Kavakos doesn’t sail above the Orchestra, as does Oistrakh with the NYP and Miropolous in the inaugural recording. No question that the detail craved by viber6 is missing. The instrument was meant to fill an auditorium the size of whatever they now call this place when it evolved from the Viol. So I get the need to want to sit closer and yes, a modern Piano can project so much more in a space such as this.

mahler123,

Good observations.  The short wavelengths of high freq (HF) mean that HF are more absorbed than lower freq (LF) at greater distance.  So the tonal balance at greater distance is skewed toward LF.  At close distances, the natural HF predominance of the violin lets it sail above the orchestra, but in the balcony HF are relatively subdued, so the violin doesn't sail above.  Recordings offer a close perspective with the close miking, and thus there is more detail than from the balcony.  Despite the live naturalness in the balcony, I dislike the greatly reduced detail there.  Move to the 5th row and you will be happy with everything--the naturalness, detail, visual line of sight, sound spatiality.  In the 1st row, I get even more detail and HF, but sacrifice the visuals and spatiality.  See for yourself.  

I used to hear the Juilliard orchestra Fri nights in Alice Tully Hall.  I haven't been in the renovated Alice Tully.  Excellent professional quality student orch for free.  You can try all locations.  Try the Wed at One free concerts at Alice Tully.  Paul Hall in the J School is great for chamber music--free concerts several times a week.  There's a small hall in the J School for more student recitals.  Check the J website.

Where do you live?

@viber6 Great post. It all rings true for this acoustic music junkie. No matter how much punishment my ears have taken through the decades.😁