2. misc-audio
  3. 123096-9095

Sellers Beware!!!

Folks, 

I am wondering if anyone else here noticing the latest trend on Audiogon. I have been approached by buyers in Vietnam to buy my listings. I have gotten at least dozen offers in last month or so, they are pretending to be US based buyers, with US address and do not disclose their actual location until you have accepted the offer.  I have already declined two confirmed offers as soon as I figured out their true identity. The US address being provided on Audiogon is either a local business shop run by Vietnamese native or a 'friend' address. I googled the address and called the local address listed on Audiogon. It turns out to be small business shop and the owner had no idea about the sale or the product he is about to receive in next 2-3 days. 

The icing on the cake, the buyer gets bent of shape when you point out these last minute surprises and then try shift the blame on us that we are not very 'trusting'. Go figure! 

I am outlining some of the things that were common in my dealings, 

1. Broken English (sorry no offense)
2. 12-14 hour delay between communications
3. Start off with low ball offer and then agrees to pay within 10-15% off of your asking price
4. Unusual delay in receiving payments, they tend to apologize profusely and blame PayPal for delay
5. They will ask you to 'absorb' PayPal fee due higher percentage charged by PayPal on intl. transfers
6. Negative, neutral or no feedback
7. The address in their Audiogon profile will be either in west cost (CA) or east coast (NY). 

This thread is not intended to target a certain race or nationality, the sole purpose of this thread is to create awareness against the 'sneaky' buyers. I welcome all buyers, domestic or international and wish them a hassle free buying and selling experience on Audiogon. 

128x128lalitk
nguyenson123's avatar
nguyenson123
12 posts
 
Dear all,

Being an audiophile in Vietnam I can clarify the subject to my understanding as below:

1. Broken English (sorry no offense):
Many Vietnamese audiophile can not speak good English but they can listen to the music as well.  

2. 12-14 hour delay between communications:
This is due to time difference between US and Vietnam from 11-13 hours depend on your US time zone.

3. Start off with low ball offer and then agrees to pay within 10-15% off of your asking price:
The habit here in Vietnam is to bargain against the offered price. 10-20% counter offer is acceptable.

4. Unusual delay in receiving payments, they tend to apologize profusely and blame PayPal for delay:
Coz the shipping agent in the US need to wait for the final buyer to make deposit of the purchase item (100% of the item value + shipping fee + service fee + exchange commission) and also due to time differrence and banking day difference it would take some delay.

5. They will ask you to 'absorb' PayPal fee due higher percentage charged by PayPal on intl. transfers:
I guess the shipping agent shall try to maximize their profit this way.

6. Negative, neutral or no feedback:
Lot of Vietnamese goner would have no feedback as seller because it would be impossible to sale anything from here because of custom export regulation and very few have international CC and PP to purchase and have feedback as buyer like me.

7. The address in their Audiogon profile will be either in west cost (CA) or east coast (NY):
Would it be the address of the shipping agent mainly in CA and NY or sometime the account like me who used to live in the US and now located in Vietnam.

I hope I can make you understand with my English.

Cheers

Nguyen
lalitk's avatar
lalitk OP
5,438 posts
 
nguyenson123, 

Thank you for your feedback.  

"Music has no language barriers. It's just music, you could just listen to it and feel it"

The purpose of this post to create awareness against buyers that are not upfront and honest. The two individuals I dealt with did not disclose their true location nor they had any designated professional agent appointed to negotiate deal or facilitate shipment. So I end up absorbing high Paypal fees. On another instance I was given an address where the addresse had no clue that he is acting as an agent or about to receive an merchandise. Not to mention the time I spent haggling for price back and forth. 

To my point, it's only fair that all international buyers should disclose the logistics before entering into any negotiations with the seller. 

I just sold an item to a International buyer, he started off with, I live in .... interested in buying my item, would you be willing to ship the item if I take full responsibility of all the international shipping and custom fees. Guess what, It took less than 48 hours to complete the sale.  

denonito
3 posts
 
Thanks to all members giving us information from their experience  I have had a few inexpensive lessons, but I haven't made any international sales yet, but the experiences you have passed along will help me, if and when I list my McIntosh and Dynaco parts. I know there are many overseas buyers in the Vintage tube market.
The problem someone pointed out, is that weeks after the sale and the money has "Cleared", and is in your account, and then you get "the e-mail". Pay pal has a "buyer protection" plan. Buyer can claim damage, not as described. etc..and then they(Pay pal) will ask you, the buyer, to pay for the "return" shipping label and refund the buyers full initial amount, including cost of shipping item to them...
This happened, to me, on a $20.00 HP bluetooth mouse that the buyer said, was the worst mouse ever made. I use it daily, its a great working mouse. It was either buyer remorse or User error, but what can you do? If the buyer has a pattern of doing it, you might have a chance getting protection from Pay pal Seller protection plan, otherwise...Good Luck
If you have been successful with overseas sales, more power to you.
The cautions members are trying to impart to you here are from their experience, I would heed the cautions. I will. One bad transaction, and then you will understand....could be an expensive "tuition" payment.
Jeff
czarivey
5,946 posts
 
I don't discriminate either, I only follow line of simple rules:
1. Local pickup on any large, heavy or fragile items
If no local pickup -- arrange your own shipping of your choice no matter where you are and how you are.
2. No checks accepted even certified funds.
Money order, credit cards, cash will work.
3. All international sales -- arrange your own shipping and insurance. 20% of items sent internationally getting lost.  Therefore insurance may even cost more than item itself.

electrontinkerer
3 posts
 
As an international buyer who's purchased some large, heavy and expensive items from Audiogon I've found that lots of things get lost in translation in emails. I've found that a simple phone call (followed up by an email to keep things formal) often clears things up that umpteen messages can't.

With regards to payment, I would like to point out in fairness that many sellers refuse to accept PayPal when dealing with international buyers, and insist on bank transfers. That then shifts the risk all the way to the buyer who then is left with a difficult choice: proceed with the transaction and risk an expensive lesson, or drop the sale altogether.
More to discover