And by the way, wemfan, I don't think you need a sub for this room given the way you are going to use it. I am just helping you spend your money if that is what you want to do... :) |
Wemfan,
I agree with Finsup: you may find you don't need a sub once you have it up n running and listen for a few days. You may want one since the LS50s only reproduce bass down to 47hz. I'd wait to make sure, though, since it may save you a punch in the face from your neighbor.
The possible need for a sub was the only downside I could think of when using the LS50s. If you do decide you need one, just make sure you get one with a built-in amplifier, which most come with, anyway. Once you decide on a center speaker, the A31's 3-channels will all be spoken for.
I know you received my post info on the stands after you had already bought the Sound Anchors. My recent replies have been slow to post for some reason.
In any case, you made a good choice with the Sound Anchor stands; I think they'll perform well. It's just that the Argosy stands may be just as good for a much better price.
I'm looking forward to the results since they should be very good.
I read you may be constructing some more systems in the future. If this one meets your expectations, I will be available if you'd like, at my usual fee.
Enjoy,
Tim
|
I don't really have a budget but want to pick one that would would fit my system in performance. I am under the impression that a sub would really help my system. You don't agree? It would have to be one sub. I just don't have room for two. |
All the better if I don't need a sub. i really don't want to clutter up the room any more than i have to, not to mention the expense. I think I have decided on the R-600 as the center. It will take a month to get my stands so I will order it a little while later but everything else is on the way.
Your post didn't appear until after I had already ordered the stands and I really don't like canceling out on somebody. A deal is a deal and the guy was nice and spent a half hour trying to make sure I was getting what I needed. If it was a big chain store I would have considered canceling but not on a small business guy. I have had my posts appear slow too. I wish I had seen yours earlier.
How about cables? What should I do there?
I do have several more pieces to acquire and I do want your help. Your usual fee fits perfectly into my budget. :-)
Thanks, Bill |
Wemfan,
As Tim wrote, if you are going to get a sub, get a self-powered one. Whether you get one or not may have something to do with the neighbors. Whether you need one depends on your listening habits and what you are expecting out of the system.
I know I am beating dead horse here. Tim thinks this is an HT system. It probably is but you have not actually stated exactly that in your thread. If it is TV and maybe a little music (for now), I would just stick with the speakers.
Every speaker involves compromises. Your speaker placement positioning is a little limited. I don't quite agree with Tim that all speakers are placement sensitive. Some speakers can be put up against a wall while others need from several inches to several feet behind them to the front wall to sound good.
Finding the speaker's balance - that is the place where the bass is not over-emphasized or muddy, or where it doesn't sound thin and the image is too diffuse will require some time on your part to find that balance.
Since you are using stand-mount speakers, one challenge you will face if you use a sub is to integrate with the speakers. Therefore, try working on speaker placement first. Once you get them dialed in as best you can, then see if you need a sub.
Besides, you write that this is one of three rooms you are going to be working on and you can direct some of your funds there. Maybe one of the other rooms will be more suitable for an HT environment where a sub is essential in my view.
I have not set up a bedroom system so I don't have any experience with trying to deal with a large piece of furniture such as a bed in a 16'x14' room. Hopefully others who have done so will chime in. |
I'm thinking about the sub question a little more. SVS has a cylinder subwoofer, the PC12-NSD. Other than having a small footprint, which I would consider important in Wemfan's room, would using a cylindrical sub have any superior advantages over the typical box sub in Wemfan's room? |
Wemfan,
I suggest you delay purchase of a sub until you audition your new system in your room and adjust the LS50/stand positioning for optimum sq.
I can suggest a good starting point for initial speakers' placement once you answer 2 questions:
1. What is the width of the wall that your system will be setup along?
2. What type of flooring is in the room, wood or other hard surface? Carpet?
Also, are you saying the Sound Anchor stands won't arrive for about 4 weeks?
Thanks,
Tim
|
Finsup,
I think I will wait until I get it all together before I ad a sub. I don't know what size I would need but I did look at JL Audio Fantom series and they look good to me. A cylinder sub also sounds like a great option. i have never heard of one before but space is always a concern. As far as placement goes there won't be too much room to adjust. They will go pretty much where they go. My closest neighbor is 300 yards away so I won't be bothering anybody no matter what I do.
I rarely watch a movie but I do watch a good amount of television and as good as this thing should sound my music listening should go way up in this room. I actually have three more rooms to work on.
1. Our master if I can talk my wife into it.
2. The living room
3. The studio
I have a studio where I mess with my music and I have some audio gear out there that I am updating so I have lots to do over some time.
The Parasound amplifier arrived today and I also just ordered the KEF R-600 center so I have everything ordered and on the way except for a sub but I will take your and Tim's advice and wait.
As always, I really appreciate the input. |
The width of the wall is 14' but I have a television and two doors to contend with so there won't be much room for adjusting speakers.
The floor is hardwood over concrete.
3-4 weeks is correct. |
Wemfan and Finsup,
It looks like you'll be waiting 3-4 wks until you can figure out where to position them to sound best.
In the meantime, I'll give you some points to keep in mind when they do arrive:
1. Stand mounted monitors typically sound best positioned a few feet away from the wall behind them. I doubt they will sound as good if they're positioned backed against the wall. I suggest placing them, at least initially, as far away from the wall as you can while still being not in anyone's way walking in front of them. Just make sure the front of the LS50's are closer to you than the plane of the hdtv screen. You will almost certainly notice a decrease in sq if the speaker faces are behind the tv screen plane.
2. For lateral distance between the speakers, a good starting point is to position them as far apart as possible while still not obstructing doorways. If the music sounds like it is coming from points between the speakers, and not from the left and right speakers themselves, then leave them at this width. If not, then slowly move each speaker closer to the other in small increments until the sound seems to emanate from between the speakers.
3. Think of each of your speakers as corners along the base of a triangle and your head as the peak corner between the two base corners or points. Ideally your head, laying in your listening position, should be exactly between the left and right speakers. The distance from the left spkr to your left ear should be as close as possible to the distance from your right spkr to your right ear. This is critical in creating the illusion of a realistic soundstage on well recorded music. The goal most of us are after is a soundstage illusion that is wide, deep and steady. For example, on a well recorded acoustic track, the vocal might come from center stage, with percussion behind, other instruments positioned left and/or right without this illusion wavering.
You'll know your speakers are positioned properly when this goal is achieved.
4. It's easier if you have a helper; the helper makes small positioning adjustments to the speakers/stands, at your direction, while you listen for results at the listening position.- or vice versa.
5. There is another positioning method to the above called 'Toe-In'. Start with each speaker pointed straight ahead with no angle. Experiment by angling each speaker inward incrementally toward your listening spot to find out if this improves sound staging or not.
All these small adjustments to positioning are trial-and-error; the more attention and effort, the better the results. If you cannot achieve a good sound stage using these steps, your room acoustics may need analyzing and corrective room treatments. We can discuss this later if needed.
6. This is the final, and definitely the most important, guideline to follow: All of the above steps need to be done either well before your search for a life partner or a considerable time after you've met. Obviously, any sane person observing you perform the above obsessive-compulsive and rather pathetic ritual, is going to have a very strong urge to flee.
You've been warned,
Tim
|
That's pretty funny, Tim. Fortunately, I have had this wife a long time and she knows about all of my many deficiencies. Tell me this...how is the remote control going to work? Will I have two or can I get one that will work my directv and this version of a home theater? Remember, I have never done this before.
Just waitin on the center and the stands then it is hook up time!!! |
Hi Wemfan,
Yes, understanding and tolerant wives are important for us a/v nuts. I'll have been married for 26 yrs this May and she's been cool with me turning our living rooms into combination home theaters and listening rooms (with front 6 ft tall speakers) all along. Good to hear you have a keeper, too.
Some might say you went overboard on your bedroom system with others on this thread and myself as willing instigators/accomplices. But I say pay them no mind because, every time you use it, you're going to be thrilled. The system you built is of exceptional quality from beginning to end, with no weak links in the chain. The choice of the bigger rack/stand with the KEF R600C center speaker is just the cherry on top.
We all should be arriving at your house a day or two after you get it all set up and running for a listen; you do have a king sized bed, right?
Have a blast and keep us informed.
See you soon,
Tim
|
Wemfan,
I just noticed I didn't answer your question on the remotes. As I noted before, my system is very similar to yours. I not only have the same hdtv and Oppo 105 as you, I have Directv, too. So, I'll tell you how I utilize the remotes and give you an idea of at least one way it all functions.
Basically, I use both the Directv remote and the Oppo remote. The Directv remote controls what you're viewing and the Oppo remote just controls the volume. I've found that, once you adjust the volume to your desired level on one channel, this volume works well on all channels so you can set it aside and just use the Directv remote only to switch channels. You'll only need the Oppo remote again if you want to turn the sound up, down or 'mute'.
The Oppo's volume level will be super-imposed on your tv screen when you adjust it on the Oppo remote. It's a horizontal bar that fills in as you increase volume and also displays a numeric volume readout of '0 to 100'. I set my volume in the '50-65' range for regular tv viewing and only increase to above '70' when watching favorite shows or movies.
To have your system work in the above manner, here's how to set it up: Connect an HDMI cable from the Directv 'Genie' or small 'client server' to the 'HDMI 1' input on the Oppo. Connect a 2nd HDMI cable (the 105 comes with a 6ft HDMI cable) from the Oppo's output to the Panasonic hdtv's 'HDMI 1' input. This hookup allows the satellite video signal to be processed by the 105's very good Qdeo internal video processor before being passed along to your plasma. The picture quality is excellent with this setup.
I also have a Logitech Harmony-650 universal remote that I used on my previous setup. I haven't yet felt the need to reprogram it to take over the functions of both into a single remote. This would be another option if you feel the need for it.
I hope this helped you understand how it all functions,
Tim |
My DirecTV HD-DVR also connects to the Oppo 105 via HDMI, but I use a Logitech Harmony One to control all the components in the setup. The preamp triggers the amps.
db |
Still waiting on the rack. I have everything else. I would think that another week or so and I will be putting this all together. |
Wemfan,
Excellent, I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. I'm kind of busy right now with a kitchen remodel, but I'll be checking in on this thread over the next few weeks.
Tim |
Everything has arrived and I have it all connected and set up although not correctly. I used rca plugs from the stereo outs instead of balanced XLRs. I will change that when I get everything as it should be so I can order some cords.
So far, I have played a music dvd and it plays fine with a good picture. The two problems I have are..
1. The center channel has yet to make a noise.
2. The television does not come through the Oppo. It is hooked to the TV by the HDMI cord only. |
Number two doesn't make any sense so I will clarify. It appears the HDMI cord (from tv to Oppo) only benefits playing DVDs with the Oppo and is not in use when watching regular television. Regular cable television is not playing through my stereo set up. I have an audio out on the TV but no where to connect it on the Oppo that I can see. Do I need a preamp to connect the television audio to? |
Wemfan,
I will respond to your hookup questions tomorrow. Going from memory your system consists of the following:
Panasonic VT65" plasma tv.
Oppo 105
KEF LS50 speakers
KEF center channel
I don't remember if you bought a subwoofer or not. Here's how to hookup the Directtv,Oppo 105 and VT65:
Connect an HDMI cable from the Directv 'Genie' or small 'client server' to the 'HDMI 1' input on the Oppo. Connect a 2nd HDMI cable (the 105 comes with a 6ft HDMI cable) from the Oppo's HDMI output to the Panasonic hdtv's 'HDMI 1' input. This hookup allows the satellite video signal to be processed by the 105's very good Qdeo internal video processor before being passed along to your plasma. The picture quality is excellent with this setup
I'm sorry but I've gotta go now. But I'll go over the audio setup tomorrow as soon as I'm able. If you have a subwoofer, you're goingto need an rca cable from the Oppo to the subwoofer and 3 rca cables from the Oppo to the Parasound(if you want the best audio, you should get one pair of xlr cables to run from Oppo to Parasound amp and just get a single rca audio cable for the Oppo to your amp). You'll need speaker wires: Parasound to left and right front speakers and center channel speaker, too. Please have these cables in the correct lengths by tomorrow afternoon and I'll detail the audio hookup. I won't be able to reply until late tomorrow afternoon approx.4-5pm.
Later,
Tim |
Hi Wemfan,
Sorry, had some things to do today and just got back. Anyway, here's how to hookup the audio once the Hdmi cables are hooked up:
1.Connect the 'Dedicated Stereo' Right audio output to the 'CH 1' audio input on the Parasound A31 with either a singlxlr or rca cable (xlr ispreferred if you have it).
2..Connect the 'Dedicated Stereo' Left audio output to the 'CH 3' audio input on the Parasound A31 with either a singlxlr or rca cable (xlr ispreferred if you have it).
3. Connect spkr wire between the spkr jacks under the A31's 'CH 1' label to your KEF LS50 located to the right side of your plasma.
4.Connect spkr wire between the spkr jacks under the A31's 'CH 3' label to your KEF LS50 located to the left side of your plasma.
5. Connect an rca cable between the 'Center Out' on the back of the Oppo and the rca input on the back of the A31 labeled 'CH 2'
6 Connect spkr wire between the spke jacks under the A31's 'CH 2' label to your KEF center channel spkr located under your plasma.
7. Press the 'Home' button on your Oppo's remote.
8. Scroll right to the 'Setup' icon (last one on right) and press 'Enter'.
9. Send me a p.m. with your phone# when you've completed the above and I'll call you and we'll go forward from step#8 on the phone. It'll be much quicker.
Thanks,
Tim
|
Wemfan,
The HDMI cable attached between the Oppo's HDMI input (will display as #3 'HDMI Back' once all has been hooked up properly) and the Directv box's HDMI output sends both your satellite signals audio and video to the Oppo 105. The Oppo has a built in decoder for Dolby digital 7.1 surround. You'll need to run an rca cable from the analog audio output on the back of the Oppo for the center channel to the rca audio input labeled 'CH 2' on the back of your A31 amp (the 'Dedicated Stereo' rca or xlr outputs on the Oppo's back panel carry the left + right front surround channel signal for surround sound and the regular stereo left +right signals when playing music. Connect the left 'Dedicated Stereo' output to the A31's 'Ch 3' input and the right output to the A31's 'Ch 1' input). You'll only be using 3 channels, or 3.1 channels if you use a sub, but that's fine. You'll just be hearing the front left + right and center channels.
The Oppo also has a built in QDEO video processor that will take the incoming 1080i satellite signal, up-convert it to 1080p and optimize it before sending it to your Panasonic plasma's HDMI input #1. You'll need to make sure both the Panasonic and Oppo are configured properly on their respective internal menu settings but I will explain these once the physical hookups are done.
Later,
Tim |
Wemfan,
We haven't heard from you in awhile; you must be too busy just enjoying your new system. I'd really like to hear your impressions, though.
Thanks,
Tim |
