Soundstage...How to determine what's right?

Rodman
The VK looks like something for me to dream about. It'll be a while befor I am able to justify something like that. Do appreciate the link. Good reading.
Shadorne
Once again thanks. The idea of a tubed cd player is an interesting one. Just wish someone I knew had one that I could try in my system. At this time it is just an interesting idea for me but sometimes I fall prey to impulse buying.
Thanks again,
Steve

hey Scoly1- If you're still in here, check this out: (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=50) You may be able to pick one of these up used and upgrade it when the funds become available. It would give you a taste of what a tubed source can do for your listening. There are a number of upgrades available. The first thing I would do would be to find a matched pair of Siemens E188cc's to pop in there. That's if I didn't have the money for those wonderful 1960's Siemens CCa's I'm always raving about. Read the Stereophile review(if not all of them).

I think determining what is right in regards to the soundstage height is based upon personal preferences. I would set yor listening position at a height that is about even with the midrange and tweeter elements of your speakers if they are arranged with the midrange in the center and tweeter on top. This will allow you to position the speakers with directional energy of those two drivers and help you pick the depth and how wide you want the soundstage to appear, for example, with no toe in, the stage will be wider, but you may suffer some loss of coherence in instrumental detail. As you toe in, the details become more focused but with some loss of soundstage width. In regards to depth, I find that having the speakers far from the wall behind them allows for a deep soundstage. Of course a lot will depend on your own listening likes and room conditions and equipment. I like the soundstage and depth where I am seeing (when I am closing my eyes and imagining I am at the concert) and hearing the performance as if I am about the 3rd to the 5th row back. For me and in my room this gives me the best sound and coherence. I also have my speakers slightly toed in, just right of the listening position and of course the regular room treatments to tame reflections and echo. I also found that experimenting with treatment directly behind the speakers effect the soundstage and also can make the speakers sound congested if too much is used there. Funny you mention congested, I also experienced that with a needle going bad and no matter what how many times I cleaned it, it was sounding congested, I finally had to retip it and the congestion went away. Just an example of how similar variable symptoms we hear can be way off topic to the cause.

A lot of experiementing will have to take place. I still have the tape marks in my room from previous positions of loudspeaker placement. It will take some time to get it just right. I would suggest listening to various types of music as you experiment and pick out certain attributes, the whack of a kick drum or the vocals of musicians and listen to how your speaker placement effects the soundstage.
Good luck,
Audioquest4life

Rodman
Looked at the Njoe. Have been lusting for the 99 for some time now. Looks like the 4000 is a big step up so maybe it will drive the prices down on the 99. Bought an Arcam not that long ago. Should have just waited a bit longer and bought the 99.
Thanks again.

Audioquest4life
Thanks for the reply. Makes a lot of sense. I have been playing around with positioning and have seen some improvement. Will continue.

Should receive two of the Chesky disc soon. Ordered "The Ultimate Demonstration Disc: "Guide to Critical Listening" and Jazz Sampler. Should give me something to work with. I do have some problems with the room and will be posting questions soon about what I can do to alleviate some of them and still keep my wife happy.
Steve

You know, I think the most important clue to a great soundstage is when something is coming from the far left or right it does not sound like it is coming directly from the driver or even the front of the speaker itself. Instead, it should sound disconnected from it, maybe within the speaker itself.
Otherwise, the soundspace just collapses,
and you feel like you are hearing a pair of good radios.
(I've mentioned this before in this space.) Maybe I'm confusing staging with transparency, but I think they are are completely linked.
As an extreme example, try some of the early stereo Beatles albums
(the Capitol sets of Meet the Beatles, etc., or Rubber Soul), and see if you can get a driverless sound. (It's an acid test, as these are basically dual-mono recordings.) This is very difficult in most speakers.