Speakers vs. headphones

I am in full agreement that acoustic control of a room is extremely important and you make some excellent additional points. However, I don’t agree that with headphones there is a parallel (“correspond”) as concerns the elimination of room effects. “Shell geometry” is akin to speaker enclosure geometry. In both cases the driver is being surrounded, or at least supported by an enclosure. Speakers (enclosures) are situated in a room and their output is then subject to that room’s acoustic effects. Headphones sit on one’s head and their sound does not interface with the room acoustic. That is the advantage.

The reflections/absorbtion/diffusion of the sound INSIDE the headpohone shell is what we listen to...We dont listen to the sound coming directly from the driver of the headphone... This is my point...

For the speaker enclosure it is necessary to control his vibrations and resonance...But like from an headphone drivers and shell who vibrate, the room vibrate also and the gear, and the speakers must be mechanically isolated...

Shell geometry is akin to speaker enclosure+room

Why?

Because in a 13 feet square room it is easy to calculate the speed of sound and realized that the waves cross my room roughly 10 times each second...( the neuro physiology of sound treatment is calculated in fraction of a second, less than few hundreds milliseconds for the brain).

What i listen then to DONT COME from the speakers enclosure and the drivers of the speakers directly but from the room geometry and acoustic content and even is characterized by his topology, in my case 2 windows and one door ...

In the case of an headphone we must divide the speed of sound by the few inches of the shell and you will realized that you dont listen to the headphone drivers DIRECTLY but to the shell of the headphone and to his acoustical content and even to his topology if the headphone is open...

Then yes headphone elimnate the room problem... But my room eliminate the DIFFERENT shells problem of ALL my headphone... 😁😊No headphone sound at all like one another why? Shell geometry, topology, and specific acoustic peoperties of the different materials composing the headphone...Same problem than with a room...

i respect you greatly frogman and i apologize for insisting about my point...

But anyone can prefer headphones for sure... But the reason cannot be because they are IDEALLY and by DESIGN better than room+speakers because they eliminate the room, yes they eliminate the room, but they replace it by another room problem : their own shell...

The only reason why people prefer headphone is the fact that it is more complex et difficult to set a room acoustic than a shell acoustic... But at the end in a dedicated room well chosen speakers in a rightfully embedded acoustic, the confort is better and the S.Q. MAY be better... it is my experience...

I wish you the best and respect you more than words can say...

“Shell geometry” is akin to speaker enclosure geometry.

I did not say that “shell geometry is akin to speaker enclosure+room”. I said, “akin to speaker enclosure geometry”; no +room. The +room is the next step in the process. Headphones don’t deal with +room. Headphones, in a strong sense, are simply small speakers and of course both have enclosure resonances.. All that you wrote about controlling vibrations and resonance in an enclosure is correct, but this applies to BOTH headphones and speakers. The sound from the speaker then has the room acoustic to contend with.

My ears are not between the drivers speakers and the enclosure of the speaker..

They are in the room...

My ears are not between the drivers headphone and the shell of the headphone..

The rooms is on each my ears here..

In the 2 case the "room" or shell, i must controls the SAME factors to optimize the experience...mechancal, electrical and acoustical...

Have you ever try to modify an headphone?

If you try you will improve it if you made the right changes..I modify my 7 headphones with success...

But at the end a room can deliver what most shell would never deliver : more lifelike experience of music in a real non confined space filling the room not filling the head...And the intimacy of headphone sound can even be reach in a room ... I did it...

Yes it is a question of tastes and needs... But it is also a question of experience and experiments... At the end any room could beat all headphones IF acoustically well controlled...IF not it is a matter of taste and convenience for sure... Most people dont have a dedicated room to begin with and to do experiments with it...

This is my point ...

Ok i apologize and will mute myself now.... 😊

My deepest respect to you frogman...

mahgister, no need to apologize and please don’t mute yourself.

I am not arguing that one can not improve the acoustic properties of headphone shells, just as one can do so with a speaker. Nor am I arguing that headphones are “better” in any regard; except perhaps in the case of a particular listener who simply prefers that sonic presentation, but that is a subjective call. I am ONLY arguing, that if one can not, or does not have the inclination to treat a room to the extent that there is not a single acoustic “problem”, as perhaps you have been able to achieve, the fact that the output of a headphone driver does not interface with the room acoustic (perhaps problematical, or at least less than perfect) that this is a potential advantage. Again, only relevant if one likes the different sonic presentation that headphones provide.

You are suggesting that the space between the headphone driver and your ears, typically one inch or less and which in high quality headphones is a very controlled “environment” per the headphone’s design, can be as acoustically problematical as a typical listening room with typically problematical dimensions, problematical construction materials, furniture, glass windows, dogs 😊, …..

I’m having a little trouble with that notion. Moreover, if one gives any credence at all to the deleterious effects of acoustic borne vibrations from playback on electronics and playback gear, particularly if one listens to vinyl, that is another potential advantage. This is the reason that home recordings of any medium always sound best when the speakers are not playing while recording takes place.  By extension, I think the same can be said of this potential benefit while listening on headphones.