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Step Up Transformer Question

Ok, so bear with me as this is new terrain for me. I was quite happy with how things were sounding and then I accidentally bumped the stylus of my Cadenza Black and snapped the cantilever clean off. I did some research and ultimately decided to have Steve at VAS at fix my cartridge but it was going to take a few weeks and there was going to be no way to play the Christmas vinyl that my wife loves so much. She told me to buy another cartridge so we could have Christmas records. I was stunned. I found a great deal on a Winfeld Ti on this site and pulled the trigger. I've got it on my table and it sounds amazing. 

After speaking with Steve though, I'm going to trade in my Cadenza and have him build me a wood body cartridge to have something different. It will also be 0.2mv output. I think I've got the 2nd arm situation sorted (gonna buy a Wand and a pod to mount it on) which leaves the phono pre. I love my Rogers PA-2 and it is switchable between MC and MM with 2 different inputs in the back. Finally got the SUT part. I've been looking and trying to figure things out. I spoke with Roger and he said the transformer built into the PA-2 is 1:10 and with that I can achieve 70 or so dB of gain. I did a lot of reading and looking and while I'm sure a 4k+ SUT is amazing that's just not where I'm at with all the other expenses at the moment. I saw the Bellari MT502 was a stereophole recommended component for many years and Amazon had one on sale for like $349 or something. Figured can't hurt to try it, it's Amazon so I can always return it. I plugged it in with some admittedly questionable interconnects I had lying around and when I put the phono stage k there was a bit more hum than I'm used to but I said let's have a listen. Holy shit. This little thing blew my mind. Better impact, tighter bass, more space around instruments so better staging, improved transients. This puts me in an interesting place. 

This is an extremely inexpensive piece and it has changed my system quite a bit. I think the little extra gain I get even at 1:12 brings the cartridge to life. My question is where do I go from here? Bob's makes the sky 30 which is switchable from 1:15 to 1:30 which I like because I can play with the gain tubes in my preamp and potentially go to a quieter 12au7 than the 12ax7 that's currently in there. Will that be a real improvement? Less hum? Had also considered ordering a Rothwell from jolly old England but can't find much on them. Thoughts? I'd like to keep this sub 1k or so for now. Maybe I'll save up for a big boy SUT later. 

rmdmoore
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
2,046 posts
 

1:10 is way way too low for a 0.2mV cartridge, regardless of your downstream gain. That wouldn't last a second in my system. The Bob's Devices Sky 30/15 would probably be perfect for you. I really like the sound of the Sky's and also the EAR SUTs (at higher cost for the EAR). Not a fan of the Hashimotos or (especially) Lundahls, which lack the "fullness" and flesh I adore about SUTs. I've used a Windfeld Ti with EAR MC-3 (and current MC-4) in fact, and it sounded great - much better than the Lundahl LL1931 in my VAC phono stage. 

I've also had CineMag 1254 (blue) in a phono stage and they are excellent for the money. Sky are better for sure, but I was still impressed by the 1254. The CineMag 3440A (red) sucks - don't even bother there. All the good CineMags have blue labels. 

You will have to experiment with cables, grounding schemes, and SUT location to eliminate hum. Bob (of Bob's Devices) can probably help you out. Try to keep the outbound cable shorter than 1m - 0.5m is best. 

Lundahls and CineMags end up in a LOT of other-brand SUT boxes and phono stages, so always try to figure out what is what. I try to avoid Lundahls and red-label CineMags, but it can't always be helped. The Ortofon Verto for example, uses Lundahls. Lundahls also end up inside lots of tube phono stages, much to my chagrin. They are recognizable by their rectangular case. 

theflattire
221 posts
 

I would just go with a Ned Clayton 1254 until you figure out what's what.  You may find out that a SUT is not for you or not much better than the one you have.

The 1254s are good and fairly inexpensive.  Ned makes them with 4 settings so you can fool around with all the gain/imp.  I think 1254s are a good place to start, not cheap and not way out there and good performance.

Get into different cores and windings and it's an event horizon for your wallet, sucking out all your cash!

SUT thread on SHF that may be useful.

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

I just visited my Old Group Buy Thread for 1254's.

The Fourth GB was not gaining much momentum, and interest party posted the following.

"I ended up buying them directly from Cinemag. $175 each as of Jan 20th, 2023."

Add to this cost Low Eddy RCA Chassis Connectors and Low Eddy RCA's for Cables, and I am confident the experience had of the 1254's will be quite different for the better, producing a sonic that is improved over the ones reported on without such connectors used.

rmdmoore OP
170 posts
 

@mulveling I appreciate your input. I spoke with Roger at Roger's High Fidelity who makesy phono stage and he said that the 20db I'd get with 1:10 will get me a total of 70db of gain which is what I'm currently using with the built in SUT. It seems quite good with my Windfeld Ti. Ralph from Atma-Sphere also mentioned, as did Roger, that a lower ratio will be less prone to noise. I'm waiting on some new cables to come next week to see if I can eliminate some of the hum I'm getting with the Bellari. As you said, might need to try different grounding schemes. I feel like that's a whole other thread, lol

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

One other way from recollection used by myself as a method to discover what might be contributing to producing Hum, is to put a finger on the Metal of the Input RCA. Use the Spare Finger to touch the other Metal Parts, other RCA's, SUT Chassis, SUT Covers is external mounted, Phon' Chassis, Pre RCA's and any visible screw heads on any device local to the finger in contact with the RCA. 

If one of the contacts being made substantially reduces Hum and it is in-line, a small gauge wire used as a earth bridge might make the Hum inaudible at listening levels with a ear about a metre from a speaker. 

I have a single wire removed from a Telephone Extension Cable used as a Earth Bridge, a friend soes very similar, but also has pure copper crocodile clips attached to make an improved contact that a loose wrap.  

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