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Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
back years ago when i switched from my Basis belt driven tt, and belt driven Rockport Sirius II SE, to the direct drive Rockport Sirius III turntable; the most obvious ’stylus drag’ thing i heard was lack of clarity and coherence on large musical peaks. you would get a hardness and lack of cohesion with those belt drive tt’s.....absent with the DD Sirius III, then later the Dobbins SP-10 Mk2, then the Mk3, and then the Koda ’The Beat’ and finally the NVS. yes; piano sustains also could be an issue too. but for me, a lover of big music, it was how those belts handled the peaks that bugged me. you assume that distortion is in the recording....and then hear it sound absolutely right and do the head slapping thing.

which is not to say all belt driven tt's are equally vulnerable to that malady. i know some are not. but it has to be overcome somehow as it's inherent in the approach.
jtimothya
612 posts
 
@phoenixengr

From what I've seen, most of the DD tables use a DC motor with servo control (feedback) to maintain proper speed. This of course, comes with its own set of problems.

Would you kindly lay out what the main problems are?
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
lewm
I THINK that some of us are saying this: Absolute accurate speed is not the issue.


I learned how important speed stability was, over the actual speed when I was 10 years old. Got my first - to me - portable stereo - Hitachi am/fm with cassette and microphone.

The next few days I filled one tape - recording music from FM.
When the tape was full, I played only my tape of music for the next week. I remember to this day thinking what freedom I had to play my own songs. Of course I had taped songs that triggered a "happy mood" in me.
Life was good.     

************************************

After one week, I switched to, and listened to FM radio again. Something was wrong. I noticed that the songs I had recorded now coming at me through FM, did not sound as good as my taped version. They sounded slow and lethargic. I was confused. My tape version of the songs had a better tempo, more energy. More life.

Sometime later ....I figured out what had happened.

***********************************

The tape motor in my stereo was running fast. Oh... it was a stable and consistent enough speed, so it sounded ok. It was just running a little fast.
I learned at 10 years of age that "Speed Stability" is what is important.

Sometimes I like to speed up my turntable, up a bit, you know ....go audiophile crazy.... just to hear older female voices ...........sound younger.

Fountain of Youth ?  Try that with your digital. 

anvil_turntables's avatar
anvil_turntables
53 posts
 
A key to reducing the effects of stylus drag is reducing turntable bearing friction. Ultimately,  the effects of drag all go back to the motor.  If it has less work to do overcoming bearing  friction so much the better.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Chris
You took the words from my fingers sir!

I routinely run my TT,s and my R2R ever so slightly fast deliberately just for that sense of extra attack, drive and dynamics.
Correct?
No but it's my system and ears and stability is key for me NOT absolute speed being locked at 33.333333 recurring.
Heck if it was good enough for Fleetwood Mac it works for me.
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