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Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Hey Chris
You know that really got me thinking.
You are so right as I now remember listening to live tapes of our band from different nights and yes the tempo was different night to night.
I mastered our "sessions" into a tape I considered good enough to sell at venues and/or send off as a demo tape so always chose the best performance of each song whether they were from the same show or not.

We are human beings not machines so a live performance IS going to differ ever so slightly every time.
And probably true that myself (bass ) and our drummer might have ultimately drove that tempo overall.

And here we are with people worrying about 0.001% speed difference.
Lol.
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
i have maybe 20+ recordings of Beethoven’s 5th and double that of the 9th.

every one has a slightly different tempo. even by the same conductor and orchestra.

none are really wrong. just different. i do have my favorites.

which is a different issue than tonal solidity verses that very distrating slightly wa-wa sour sound of speed discontinuity.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,859 posts
 
Ralph, What are you doing with a lathe? Atma-Sphere going to start making records?
@mikelavigne  We've been mastering LPs for about 5-6 years. Most of the projects we've done are local. It took some time to refurbish the machine and sort out how to operate it. Fortunately I had some help from Len Horowitz of HRS.
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
Ralph, i was not the 'Mike' asking you that question. i already knew you had a lathe and mastered Lp's.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Ralph, I asked that question. It is not easy to master high quality records.
We hear the results which are not always optimal. I was just listening to Kate Bush's "Before The Dawn." The rumble forced me to turn my subwoofers down. It is a common problem with remastered albums. I assume this is from poorly maintained lathes. It is a very rare problem with older pressings. Even rarer in old classical pressings. 
Anyway, who do you send the masters to for pressing?

Mike 
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