I am feeling quite sea sick with all this boat talk. |
I have a few priorities that I have to support before an audio store gets a look in. It makes little or no sense to me in most cases to buy anything 'new' as TVAD has stated, if one looks at the gear on here for sale second hand a vast majority of it is 9/10, virtually as new coupled with very low use, not very old and can be had for perhaps half of the dealers price, and even lower than that for the 'new' item on some items.
My local store has B&W speakers and I would be buggered before I bought a pair of those, even second hand, even for nothing! |
Seems like we all want the moon but are expecting to pay the price of a thrift store shirt.
Some bitch about how much the dealer pays for item X from manufacturer Y, and sells for Z.
I think you may possibly have to work in retail to understand overheads etc, and not come out with figures out of your ass that you think you should be paying, or how much profit a company should be making. If you can't afford it or don't like the price, and are truly miffed when somebody makes a profit, then buy second hand. I mean who goes to work for nothing? except for maybe the pope, oops forgot he belongs to the richest entity on the planet, and then preaches about ending starvation, but that's a different topic.I used to work for a large department store,
possibly the most famous in the world, our mark up funnily enough I was in furniture, was wait for it... 150/170%!, now that may seen a lot of 'mark up' from what we paid for it, and you would be correct, BUT, the overheads, when they are all taken into consideration including the 110,000,000 million pounds sterling tax per year, (that awful three letter cuss word), staff, utilities, maintenance, land tax (huge amount due to size of premises in the most expensive part of town) etc etc, the profit margin whittled down to not a large percentage at the end of the day.
I try not to buy new because I think hi-fi gear, especially
as we are a dying breed, a mere grain of sand in the desert is way way to expensive. I would be interested to know how much a pair of the Martin Design Coltrane speakers selling at $295,000 costs the manufacturer to make, not really a good example so maybe a mass produced speaker manufacturer like Wilson, Dali or some such company would be a better example. An earth shattering price, a lottery win speaker for 99.9% of the population, and the other 00.1% should have better ears, more sense, and less money, oops back to the subject of money again,lol.
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The UK has an organisation called BADA (British Audio Dealers Association), it is a group of up market real audiophile shops that go that little but further to keep the customer satisfied and not sell anything that the customer does not like or need, there is no hard salesmen bullshit tactics, it is all easy and a relaxed atmosphere. They do not discount on the items they sell (If I remember correctly) as you are paying for their expert service, before, during and after the sale. The 'other sort' of hi-fi shops mostly located in Tottenham Court Road, central London, are the discount stores where you can barter the prices, but do not expect good customer service, and once you have left the store, or once the cash has been handed over, you are on your own.
The real king of cheap hi-fi is a shop called 'Richer Sounds', actually there are about 30+ richer sound shops dotted around the UK. The owner's policy is to get small premises in good locations, stack the shelves high, sell cheaply. If you have been to one of his shops it is about the size of a restaurant rest room here in the US, I kid you not they are tiny, no demo rooms (a few locations do but are so small literally only book shelf or diddy floor standers can fit in the space), the whole shop is just a room, a small room also. That's what the general public in the UK want, cheapness. When I was in the UK I was a regular customer of 'Grahams Hi-fi' shop, yes a member of BADA. No discounts off the MRSP, but the service was top notch. This was how good it was, I bought a 2nd hand Linn LP12, I was having a few problems with it, I took it there one Saturday morning, the Linn service chap spent about hour+, tinkling tweaking, adding the bits it needed that were not there and getting it all up and running sweetly, and they never charged me for their time. The turntable was a mess due to some home hi-fi DIY person (butcher more like).Graham's was the best shop I have ever been in.
A no pressure take your time kind of attitude.
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Chadnliz, I have noticed your last few threads on Audiogon that have been said quite vitriolic and venomous, as if one had a trailer and the roof had gotten a nasty leak, ( I am not implying that you live in a trailer btw).
May I suggest some chill pills? and learn to relax, try some camomile tea, listen to some Mozart, and Breathe.
Everyone is not out to get you.
As the only John on this thread says,
Peace. |
Chadnliz,
With all due respects to you to, this is a public forum as far as I can gather, if one types something, I think everyone on here is entitled to add a thread or comment. If you want to say something personal to just one individual then why not shoot them an e/mail instead of on here for all to see, and maybe comment on? I do not have an axe to grind with you, just in case you think I do.
have a good day and happy listening. |
There is another subject on Audiogon in regrads to 'Vandersteen's' new model #7 loudspeaker, it was at the CES and alone costs $45,000, partnered with ancillaries that totalled $300,000, apparently it sounds 'sublime'.
No shit! if you can't make or sell a speaker that sounds good for less than $45,000, then one perhaps is in the wrong business, then again one IS in the wrong business. The Car Industry in the EU
thrives and indeed runs and survives on the fact that the budget cars that the masses buy enables the mid range and luxury cars to be produced, no bottom end means no top end.
Who can afford to pay that much when all the world is going to the dogs?
Instead of a race to see who can produce stupid exotica that only doctors/lawyers/pop stars/actors can buy.
Give us some bread and butter speakers with bread and butter prices,keep the normal waged people happy, and feel free btw to leave the butter off, my cholesterol is high as it is.
Give us cheap but good, I know you designers can do it.
Renault were producing are nice car so sale only to EU's new 400m Eastern Europeans for the princely sum of 3000 euros. I am sure by now they have bazillions.
In fact when I was in Europe I would have flown to where they were selling them (they are not available to the rich west Europeans) and bought one and driven it back.
I would support Johnk of KCS, truly excellent speakers, that put these mega ridiculously priced speakers to shame. |
Chadnliz,
I agree with you, but I do not want the trumpets and a big fanfare when a pair of speakers sounds amazing at $45,000,$100,000 or even $300,000. I want all the hooplah to happen when a pair of speakers sounds amazing for 3k and is the toast of the hi-fi community, and surely that is the trick, for the designers to achieve greatness for little dinaro.
I suppose there is 'snobbery' in hi-fi circles also.
Does anyone have an approximate idea on how many pairs Vandersteen will sell at that price? 100pr, 200pr or more? |
'Us' audiophiles in terms of musical equipment sales are not even a grain of sand in the Sahara.The biggest selling album in the US last year was Radiohead with 28,400 sold, compared to 1 billion downloads (I am assuming legal downloads).
Why do we always assume the latest and greatest usually more expensive to be better? At the moment there are 9 Jl Audio subs for sale here on Audiogon, those have them say they are the best money can buy.Why are those new/nearly units for sale so soon after purchase?(few dealers' selling them also in the 9 I mentioned)
I am out of the 'buying new' vastly too expensive for me scene for the most part, except for maybe a cd player.I am, I believe fortunate in that when my 8" or 18" cones of my horn speakers need replacing I can just call Madisound/parts express for easy (cheap) replacement. My beloved speakers cost a fraction (5% approx) of the high end Alexandria's (et al) and are infinitely upgradeable until I die (probably), or Fostex go out of business, and if they are far down performance wise against the mega buck big boys, then I can live with that.
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