Tale of the preamps

Siddh, are you sure the added transparency you heard at your friend's home was not the result of the Atma-Sphere MA-1's? No intention to cast any doubts as the the CAT amps and Eidolons, but the MA-1's do have a tendency to be just a might transparent in their own right.

I had my friend, with the Atma-spheres drop by tonight. We listened and found the force...or better stated, the solidity, especially in the upper bass through midrange, more pronounced with the CAT/Jadis. In iteration, the definition and articulation does sound tampered with. Minutely muddied, but muddied none the less. As if, attaining the music AND the inner detail must maintain a state of juxtaposition. The physics involved may limit the two co-performing on the same stage. This may offer some explanation as to why some solid state has moved closer to tubes while some tube designs have evolved into units of greater detail.

Gregm, your point is well taken. The music should and must be the foremost objective. Unfortunately, when listening to live music, even when set way back from the orchestra, the body of the instrument's output clearly expresses the tiny nuances. It's not hidden, nor need it be searched for. It comes part and parcel....a most basic and essential element. So sacrificing the often taken-for-granted detail for over-all musicality, somehow creates an innate dichotomy.

Cable hopping I don't believe can resolve, but merely mask or re-interpret. Fine thought, Rushton. Not only are the amps an added variable, the front ends also differ. And, of course, listening rooms. Jman, your suggestion may be the course to pursue. Without trying the Ultimate it will stand only as theory.

Thanks to all. I am interested to learn of your theories regarding this apparently elusive "absolute sound"

Steve

Honestly, you are doing yourself a disservice in using the MA-1s if you don't listen to the Atma-Sphere MP-1 preamp. IMO, it is MORE IMPRESSIVE than even the amplifiers. A-S phono section destroys any iteration of the CAT--again, IMO.

It goes w/o saying of course that quality SILVER cables are needed in such a system. Wireworld Gold Eclipse or any of the top Siltechs would be my first choices.

There ain't no going back once you've heard this setup, devastating on each of the speakers (Kharmas and JM Lab) that I've heard them on.

Seems like you've done the tube thing and are starting to crave more detail and insight into the performance. Not that you can't get there with tubes(which the CAT Ultimate and Atmasphere MP-1(I'm assuming this is also tubes?) may very well do), but detail is more the forte(in general) of solid state so why not just try it to see how it works? As you mentioned, as ss and tubes units have evolved they are starting to converge somewhat, which is a good thing in my opinion because the newer formats, as they evolve and improve, are going to demand a more detailed but smooth and fully fleshed out presentation to reveal their full potential. In short, as recorded material improves(both in quality and amount of information stored) neutrality will become a more highly valued characteristic.

Anyway, I'd suggest finding a dealer who carries higher quality solid state products(sorry if the Atmasphere is ss--then this is redundant) and take home a demo unit or two. My first recommendation would be something like a Pass Labs unit as they are very neutral and revealing yet refined. If this goes too far in the other direction at least you have a solid reference and benchmark on the other side of the sonic spectrum from which to compare and proceed with other options. It doesn't cost anything(except gas and time) to demo, and I think this perspective would prove invaluable in helping you ultimately know for sure what your best option is. Best of luck.

Tim

Hi Steve. Not having any experience with Jadis, Avalon, Wadia, Atmaspehere, etc., I can not comment on the pros and cons of all the components discussed above. But I too went through a ton of listening when I was looking for the ultimate musicality to replace my wonderful ARC SP-10 of 9 years. So I understand all the effort it takes to find a preamp that retains that magical musicality that so few really have.

Concerning the Jadis JP-80, go to the Audio Critique website, http://www.high-endaudio.com/index_ac.html. There is lots of information here as the owner is a JP-80 fan. And he does modifcations to this unit. Read what he says about the JP-80 under "Recommended Components". You might be able to get what you want done on the JP-80 from him.

One other question here that nobody has addressed: if you are only using CD as your source (no mention of phono) why bother with a preamp or line stage at all? There have got to be some attenuators that you could use that would remove a lot of electronics and cabling from your system if all you have is CD as a source.

Here is another site: http://www.tweakaudio.com/
Click on "Products", then "Ultimate Attenuators". I talked to the owner of this company last week and wow, he has so much valuable information. So much to learn from his website too. He is a CD specialist so maybe this will help you a lot too on this.

Most of the people that posted here have audio systems yet another level beyond mine (ARC LS5II/PH2/DAC3II/VT130/ Maggie3.3 and soon to be a used Versa Dynamics 1.2. As I am more a phono guy, my focus is a bit different than others, but we are all after that musical event that often stops us in our listening room and gives us just a second or two pause to make us think it's the real thing. These times are when we know we've put together a great system.

Hope this helps.

John