Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio

jf47t

What is a claimed result? It reads like you are saying that any time someone plays something and describes what they heard it is a claimed result.


Yes, that’s right. That’s what the word “claim” generally means. Are you unfamiliar with that word?

I’m on a long train ride in Europe (hence browsing on my phone for a bit).

Thats a claim. The claim itself doesnt establish it as fact. It may be true or false. And it can be discussed as to whether it’s a believable claim on various grounds.

glupson made a claim that he tried one of the MG tweaks. You have expressed skepticism about that claim. Interesting how easily skepticism comes to you for other people’s claims, and it’s reasonable to express that skepticism. But if anyone directs their own skepticism at your claims you start calling them “trolls.”

How about a level playing field where people can be honestly sceptical about your claims aren’t simply dismissed?

Notice Michael immedialy wanted more evidence for a claim - e.g. photos of glupson’s tweaking?

Why then does Michael immediately become allergic to evidence when asked for something like measured changes in a signal before and after such tweaks to capacitors? Or in this case, between an amplifiers with a case on or off?

Btw, what is being discussed here regarding the amplifier case isn’t “ the hobby of listening to music.” My son is currently listening to music on his iPhone, which doesn’t require taking apart the iPhone. What we are discussing are technical claims made on behalf of the type of tweaks MG suggests, in this case that removing cases produce audible signal changes.

prof said

"Why then does Michael immediately become allergic to evidence when asked for something like measured changes in a signal before and after such tweaks to capacitors? Or in this case, between an amplifiers with a case on or off?"

above is what is called a fake statement, as anyone can read on this thread

What Michael said was "let’s set up a lab and test these claims together in real time for everyone to witness".

We already know that since wire is directional capacitors should sound better hooked up one way rather than the other direction. We also know capacitors vibrate during use so obviously you don’t want to couple them to each other or to the chassis. Damping them would be even better. Duh! You know, there is such a thing as being skeptical to a fault. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Why would prof think Michael becomes allergic when asked for something like measurements? Seems odd doesn't it, since MG has always been involved in the measurement side as seen in this review by Widescreen Review many years ago.

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.com/widescreen/